Chelsea "reward" their travelling support

[all_funkt_up]

Originally Posted by Hippy Dave

So you find Ferguson, Wenger and Benitez attractive afu? Each to their own

I didnt say that, for the record I think that in part Benitez falls into the camp of being disliked/mistrusted by the media and he gets a lot of stick.

Reporters wouldnt dare argue with Sir, they dont want their papers to be ostracised and no one dares stand up to him. Otherwise you will find yourself on the outside, he will pull a hissy fit and refuse to speak to your organisation because of some things you might have said. What reporter is going to risk criticising Fergie? Its suicide.

Then we have Wenger who up to now has been spared a press mauling because of the brand of football he plays. 3 years without a trophy? Who cares - he plays lovely football and thats what its all about.

Attitudes might change come the summer.

Basically, journalists influence the views of most fans who are thick as fuck and cant think for themselves. Journos have an idea of what a football manager should be like, if you dont fit the bill, you're for the chop. It doesnt matter that facts contradict their opinions, who ever let facts get in the way of a good story? Fuck it.

If they like them, the gaffer gets time. If not, they better think about doing a night course at the local college because the p45 is on the way.

[Hippy Dave]

Originally Posted by all_funkt_up

Then we have Wenger who up to now has been spared a press mauling because of the brand of football he plays. 3 years without a trophy? Who cares - he plays lovely football and thats what its all about.

Now I know you don't like Wenger, but he has done a fucking fantastic job at Arsenal with a LOT less money than anyone else anywhere near the top 4 of the Premiership. It helps him that they play good football, but give Benitez, Mourinho or Grant the budget of Wenger and they would achieve absolutely nothing. Nothing at all. Ferguson (another one of your favourites) is exempt from this criticism as he did build a team from scratch, and the money has only come later as a result of successes.

[all_funkt_up]

I think Wenger has his flaws and they shouldnt be overlooked, just because his team plays nice football.

Firstly, on the up side I think he is an astute businessman and has made great sums of money on Overmars and Anelka that has kept Arsenal afloat. Also with other big name players, such as Henry and Viera, he has had the balls to sell when others would have bottled it and just let them be. He is mentally very tough in some areas and this side of him deserves great respect. In other aspects though he is a petulant fucking arsehole and his current team is the embodiment of that.

His constant challenging of every decision, his whiney Gallic tone, his refusal to see anything wrong that his player does - even under his nose - yet he possesses a superhuman ability to see a tackle on his man, through a crowd of players, 80 yards away.

Also, I think referring to this season he has made a few key mistakes. One of which is down (I believe) to his arrogance. He has such blind faith (or arrogance some might say) in his own team and his own decisions, that he declined the chance to strengthen in January when they looked like they might be faltering. For this reason, this catastrophic mistake, I would say Wenger has cost his boys the chance of winning the league. Its an almighty balls up, lets be honest. There was money to spend but he didnt do so, because he made an error of judgement and thought he had sufficient cover in all areas.

Another reason where I think he falls down, is in his controlling the squad on and off the pitch. Now I will have to hurry this point (because I have a bath running) but I think Gallas is a very poor choice of captain. He sets a bad example and when the chips are down (which they are currently) I dont look to Gallas as being the man that can turn things around and do a captain's job. His histrionics at Birmingham were a complete farce for a grown man, a professional, a role model to his team - what a fucking joke.

While we're on the matter, havent Adebayor and Bendtner had a big fall out as well? Jens Lehman, he's a complete arse on and off the pitch also. You look at that cunt on the bench and wonder what he does for team morale! Wenger has constructed a team of great talents but I can see them slowly coming apart and the team ethic disintegrating because of Wengers (lack of) actions.

[all_funkt_up]

Right I have stopped the bath and will worry about that later. Incidentally Dave, do you work for Powergen? Im sure you're a mole, sent to infiltrate the board so that I (a) stay on the pc longer to correct the errors of your ways and (b) end up running a new bath when this one goes cold.

Anyway chaps, I digress. On your general point about Wenger and the miracle he has created in North London. Your comment reminded me of something Rafa said last week. He said that to win the league, you have 3 options. The first is the Chelsea route, which is to invest a massive amount of money and obtain all the best players. The second is the Man U route, which involves spending heavily for years. If you buy badly one year, you must have the ability to continue and spend again next season.

The third is the Arsenal way, which is to ignore short term success and to aim for the longer term. Poach players from all over the world and bring them through the academy basically - that is how he sees Liverpool operating in the long term. That is to assume he will be at the club in the rung run.

I think to compare Rafa to Wenger is a tad unfair. You have to give him time for the academy and reserve set up to bear fruit. If Wenger had been sacked in 2000, this team would never have come about and Fabregas would no doubt be plying his trade alongside Messi and Bojan in Catalunia.

[Hippy Dave]

First, if Wenger had been sacked in 2000 he still would have been a double winning manager on a comparatively low budget.

Anyway, I agree that he complains about every decision, and never sees anything that his players do wrong BUT that doesn't take away anything from the fantastic job he's done.

The Man Utd route recently may be heavy investment, but remember that Fergie originally built a title winning side with kids.

The Chelsea route is shit for football.

The Arsenal route "ignore short term success"???? I don't think they've done that at all. Didn't Wenger win the double in his 2nd season?

And he hasn't just "poached young talent from all over the world". What about players like Bergkamp and Henry? Everyone thought Bergkamp was finished when Wenger brought him in. Henry was an average winger.

To say that Wenger's cost them the league is ridiculous. Before the season started no-onme gave Arsenal a hope of challenging for anything better than 4th place, yet he's got one of the most inexperienced teams in the whole league heading for 3rd place, and (at least) CL QFs.

[all_funkt_up]

Originally Posted by Dave

To say that Wenger's cost them the league is ridiculous. Before the season started no-onme gave Arsenal a hope of challenging for anything better than 4th place, yet he's got one of the most inexperienced teams in the whole league heading for 3rd place, and (at least) CL QFs.

The combined age of arsenal's starting 11 on saturday was 266 years old, or 24.18 years a head.

Hardly an inexperienced squad is it?

[Hippy Dave]

An average age of 24 is very young, and Gilberto rarely plays, so it's probably lower normally.

It cannot be argued that Arsenal are an experienced side, so don't make a fool of yourself attempting it.

[all_funkt_up]

Originally Posted by Hippy Dave

An average age of 24 is very young, and Gilberto rarely plays, so it's probably lower normally.

It cannot be argued that Arsenal are an experienced side, so don't make a fool of yourself attempting it.

Im not going to argue any points. The figures are there and people may interpret them as they choose.

I just dont hold with all this "wenger is working wonders with fuck all" nonsense - the fact is that he has money to spend but doesnt want to.

Consequently, if they go on to win nothing, surely people have to question his tenure as manager.

[Hippy Dave]

Has money to spend? You have to be having a laugh. They (pointlessly) spent it all moving to a new ground.

[all_funkt_up]

He does have money to spend, it's a fact. They spent some money on building a bigger ground but as of now, that does not detract from Wenger's budget. Arsenal are on record as saying that there is money there if he so chooses to spend it. The stadium in anycase is now adding to Wenger's funds, rather than taking it away - its a massive money earner for the club.

[Hippy Dave]

Ok, it is my (3 and a bit months late) new years resolution to no longer discuss football with you afu. All of your views are tainted by a blind love of Liverpool, and a refusal to give credit to any other team/manager/player.

[all_funkt_up]

Originally Posted by Hippy Dave

Ok, it is my (3 and a bit months late) new years resolution to no longer discuss football with you afu. All of your views are tainted by a blind love of Liverpool, and a refusal to give credit to any other team/manager/player.

I gave an enormous amount of credit to Wenger, but unlike you, I admit that he has made some mistakes along the way.

[crowie]

Originally Posted by all_funkt_up

How many times has Grant's name been sung on the terraces? Not once yet...

Well those knowledgeable Chelsea fans were singing too Grant with about 20 mins to go in the recent Chelsea Arsenal game.....

"You don't know what your doing"

was the ditty as Grant took of Ballack with Chelsea 1-0 down to the Arse.........