Platini's Plan

[all_funkt_up]

Aug 31 2007 by David Prentice, Liverpool Echo

MICHEL PLATINI has promised Liverpool fans they will never suffer a repeat of the nightmare they endured in Athens.

The new UEFA chief has unveiled a radical overhaul of the Champions League which he hopes to push through.

His changes include:

* The final to be staged on a Saturday night from 2009.

* Only the biggest, most modern stadia to be used for finals from 2010.

* 75 per cent of tickets going to ‘real’ fans.

* The FA Cup winners to qualify for the Champions League from next season.

Premier League chairman Dave Richards is bitterly opposed to the FA Cup proposal and walked out of yesterday’s conference.

The Olympic Stadium in Athens had a capacity of just 63,000 and Liverpool were handed an official allocation of only 17,000 for the game with AC Milan.

But Platini said: “I would like to see 75 per cent of the stadium being reserved for fans. I also want the final to be in a big modern stadium with a capacity of 75,000.

“After what happened in Athens I would also like to see the final played on a Saturday night. I was very disappointed that there were no children there and if the game was played at a weekend they would be able to get there without worrying about school.”

Platini unveiled the plans to UEFA’s Professional Football Strategy Council in Monaco, provoking anger and indignation from Richards.

While Platini agreed to let the leagues and clubs come back with a response, he pledged to railroad the new measures through in November.

Platini added: “I want to see Cup winners rewarded. This will add to the interest in and enhance the domestic cups. I feel that is more worthy of a place than finishing fourth in the Premier League.”

Under Platini’s proposals, England, Spain and Italy will have three teams qualify automatically for the Champions League group stage via their domestic league. The champions of Europe’s leading 12 countries would be guaranteed a place in the group phase.

The top 16 countries, including England and Scotland, would have domestic cup winners entering a qualifying competition with four group stage places up for grabs.

Platini also wants the UEFA Cup changed to a similar format as the Champions League, with the Intertoto Cup scrapped.

He went on: “We need to ensure football is more balanced so that the rich do not become much richer.

“If another proposal is better than my philosophy that’s fine but I doubt they’ll come up with something better.

[crowie]

Giving the domestic cup winners a crack at the CL is a bit of a bizarre one.

Outside the UK I doubt if there are many countries where the domestic cup means much at all. None of them are certainly taken as seriously as the FA or Scottish Cups.

Look at French, German and Dutch cups in recent years. Non league teams getting to the final or semi finals in France like Calais and Amiens, Ajax reserves getting to the semi's in Holland, German lower league sides like Aachen and Union Berlin appearing in the final.


Something has to be done to the UEFA Cup as its a shambles as it currently stands. The group stages are just stupid. Any 3 from 5 qualifying meaning you could win 1 game from 4 and still be through, little or no interest from the fans, playing some teams away and some teams at home, some teams treating it as a hinderance rather than something worthwhile all adds up to a pointless part of the tournament. Should be straight knock out from beginning to end and they should also remove the CL clubs being allowed in when knocked out at Qualifying or 3rd in Group stages.

[rcgills]

Originally Posted by crowie

Giving the domestic cup winners a crack at the CL is a bit of a bizarre one.

Outside the UK I doubt if there are many countries where the domestic cup means much at all. None of them are certainly taken as seriously as the FA or Scottish Cups.

Which is precisely the point of giving a Champions League place for it, as teams will presumably then start taking it more seriously. I think it's a good idea anyway. Well, an improvement on the current situation at least. I'm one of those old-fashioned ones who would really prefer it if the Champions League were just that, for champions only. Obviously though those days are gone, and if you're going to have 4 teams from one country qualify for the Champions League, then I'd far rather see a place go to a team that's actually won something than a team that's finished 4th in the league.

[all_funkt_up]

Is it really Platini's job though to doctor the Champions' League to give more interest to the domestic cups of the relative countries?

What when the cup winner also wins the league? Would then the Cup runner up go into Europe? So we would have Millwall and Southampton qualifying for the Champs League in recent years at the expense of Chelsea and Liverpool.

Madness. However, his idea regarding having the tournament on a Saturday night is a good one. And also the idea of having more tickets for real fans is also a good one. I think though that as long as you host it somewhere with a good capacity, of say 80'000 fans, it doesnt really matter about corporates because the fans will have a decent allocation.

The problems in Athens came because the stadium was too small. Plain and simple.

[rcgills]

Originally Posted by all_funkt_up

What when the cup winner also wins the league? Would then the Cup runner up go into Europe? So we would have Millwall and Southampton qualifying for the Champs League in recent years at the expense of Chelsea and Liverpool.

And why did Millwall and Southampton make the Cup final? Because the "big" (for want of a better word) teams don't take it seriously unless they get within sniffing distance of winning it. If there's a Champions League place up for grabs, they'll think twice about sticking a reserve team out in the 3rd round. As I said, I'd rather see a place go to a team for actually winning something than for finishing 4th.

In fact, personally speaking, if I was Platini, I'd make it top 2 only qualify for the Champions League, 3rd and 4th place plus Cup winners in the UEFA, and if they're not happy then tell them to fuck off and form their own "super league". Just my opinion, but I'd love to see it happen .

[crowie]

Originally Posted by rcgills

Which is precisely the point of giving a Champions League place for it, as teams will presumably then start taking it more seriously.

But if these countries don't take their domestic cups seriously, which has obviously been the attitude for donkeys years, why should they be forced to change it now?

Within reason anyone can be successful in a cup, given a good draw and a bit of luck. Finishing 4th, or 3rd or 2nd which will be the case for some countries, is down to a season long effort, not a short burst of games. I think teams should be rewarded for the consistency shown rather than the possible luck of a cup run.

Would the competition (the CL) benefit from having Union Berlin instead of Leverkusen or Calais instead of Marseille? I don't think it would.

Cup winners should go into the UEFA Cup which should be a straight knockout from beginning to end.

[crowie]

Originally Posted by all_funkt_up

What when the cup winner also wins the league? Would then the Cup runner up go into Europe? So we would have Millwall and Southampton qualifying for the Champs League in recent years at the expense of Chelsea and Liverpool.

Nope, runners up wouldn't get in, the place would revert back to the 4th place league side.

Originally Posted by all_funkt_up

I think though that as long as you host it somewhere with a good capacity, of say 80'000 fans, it doesnt really matter about corporates because the fans will have a decent allocation.

How many stadiums would be able to host the CL final if thats the case? Wembley in the UK, Bernabeau, Camp Nou, San Siro...can't think of anymore of the top of my head in Western Europe.

Thats a pish idea IMO, the CL final should be moved about to encourage teams to adapt stadiums and improve facilities and teams or national associations who do so should be rewarded with the final. You don't want the final rotating around a select band of 5 or 6 stadiums.

Originally Posted by all_funkt_up

The problems in Athens came because the stadium was too small. Plain and simple.

Hampden staged a Champions League final with no security problems whatsoever and it was smaller in capacity than Athens.

[rcgills]

Originally Posted by crowie

But if these countries don't take their domestic cups seriously, which has obviously been the attitude for donkeys years, why should they be forced to change it now?

No-one will be forcing them to change their attitude. I'm prepared to bet they will though, they always do when there's something in it for them.

Would the competition (the CL) benefit from having Union Berlin instead of Leverkusen or Calais instead of Marseille? I don't think it would.

I don't see why they shouldn't be given their shot at it, if they've earned it on the pitch. We're still talking the main national cup competition here, we're not talking secondary events like the League Cup or the Johnstone's Paint Trophy here.

Why should a team that finishes 4th be playing in the "Champions league"? Because all the "big" teams are interested in is giving themselves as much chance as possible of making as much money as possible. UEFA give them what they want because they're scared that otherwise, they'll just throw a strop, and set up their own super league. Personally I wish they would.

Interesting to see anyway that supporters of two teams that potentially stand to lose a great deal from this should be so against it. Will be interested to see the views of fans of the likes of Spurs, Everton, Newcastle or Man City think, or fans of teams outside the Premier League.

[GaNgStA kEeKs]

Im with RC and am in favour of this as like he says it would then give the cup more prestige and mean more teams would be taken it seriously which can only benefit the cup and the fans who half the time get stuck not knowing what starting 11 will be fielded.

Teams finishing 4th in the league is a farce imo anyways. I have always said it should be renamed as it is no longer the Champions League. I was ok at a push with 2nd and maybe 3rd at times but 4th is just too much.

[crowie]

Kiko,

Your comments are based on teams "finishing 4th" in the league not deserving a CL place.

You do realise that not every nation gets 4 CL spots ie EVERY country outside England, Italy and Spain DOESN'T get 4 places. Your talking as if every country has multiple CL entrants.

And the 2nd place country from Holland (7th in the rankings) downwards will now have the league winners and cup winners instead of of 2nd placed league teams in the CL.

[GaNgStA kEeKs]

Originally Posted by crowie

Kiko,

Your comments are based on teams "finishing 4th" in the league not deserving a CL place.

You do realise that not every nation gets 4 CL spots ie EVERY country outside England, Italy and Spain DOESN'T get 4 places. Your talking as if every country has multiple CL entrants.

And the 2nd place country from Holland (7th in the rankings) downwards will now have the league winners and cup winners instead of of 2nd placed league teams in the CL.

lol - sorry Crowie, i wasn't clear. I do realise that not every nation gets 4 spots. Fuck, imagine Aberdeen and Hibs going into the pot

[rcgills]

Originally Posted by crowie

And the 2nd place country from Holland (7th in the rankings) downwards will now have the league winners and cup winners instead of of 2nd placed league teams in the CL.

I personally wouldn't have any problem with that at all. It should ensure that teams definitely take the cup seriously, which is the main point of the proposed change.

[Peter Orchard]

Guys who live in the larger cities get used to seeing the top European teams come to play but remember the Halifax Towns of the world who celebrated the opening of their new floodlights with a match against Partizan Belgrade. The occassion was massive. All the ladies went to have their hair done and the mayor threw in some sandwiches.

Likewise here in Moss. We had both Bayern and Real Madrid here and again the domino effect runs throughout.

The Intertoto doesn´t cut it for me; the UEFA cup is a sad decliner. The Champions League is what football is all about and to deny it to the outlying masses is to give football´s roots the finger.

[Napoleon Solo]

Originally Posted by crowie

Would the competition (the CL) benefit from having Union Berlin instead of Leverkusen or Calais instead of Marseille? I don't think it would.

I think this is where the problem is with regards to which teams qualify for the CL.

At the moment the big clubs from the major leagues are happy because they'll qualify year upon year. Throw in a few league winners from the "minor" countries and they're still quite happy.

However, open up the CL to a potentially "inferior" team (a Union Berlin or Calais) and suddenly it's the competition that's going to suffer.

Competitions like the CL should be there to benefit teams, the teams shouldn't be there to benefit the CL. If a team like Wigan make it to the CL then good for them, they'll benefit from a bit of extra revenue that season which will hopefully make them more competitive in coming years, which can only be a good thing surely!

Originally Posted by crowie

How many stadiums would be able to host the CL final if thats the case? Wembley in the UK, Bernabeau, Camp Nou, San Siro...can't think of anymore of the top of my head in Western Europe.

Thats a pish idea IMO, the CL final should be moved about to encourage teams to adapt stadiums and improve facilities and teams or national associations who do so should be rewarded with the final. You don't want the final rotating around a select band of 5 or 6 stadiums.

As far as this is concerned, at the moment only a select few stadiums around Europe would be able to hold the CL final. But surely these conditions can only help encourage the relevant football associations to improve their stadiums and facilities so that they'll get the chance to host the final.

It's the biggest game in European football, surely it should be held at the biggest and best stadia with the best facilities for fans. Why hold it in a sub-standard stadium just for the sake of moving it around. Impose restrictions and the national FAs will soon make sure they comply.

That's my two cents worth anyway!

[crowie]

Originally Posted by Napoleon Solo

As far as this is concerned, at the moment only a select few stadiums around Europe would be able to hold the CL final. But surely these conditions can only help encourage the relevant football associations to improve their stadiums and facilities so that they'll get the chance to host the final.

It's the biggest game in European football, surely it should be held at the biggest and best stadia with the best facilities for fans. Why hold it in a sub-standard stadium just for the sake of moving it around. Impose restrictions and the national FAs will soon make sure they comply.

That's my two cents worth anyway!

Cheers for your two cents worth Napoleon

Yes, its the biggest game in Europe but on holding it in 75,000/80,000+ capacity stadiums is a mental idea.

So say you have Arsenal, brand spanking new stadium, 60,000, NEVER able to hold the CL final despite their excellent new ground. Its not sub standard in any way but its not big enough.

So Arsenal want to hold it, add 15,000+ seats to the Emirates for £xm, when are they ever going to fill 75,000+ seats there on a normal week to week basis. Never.

Asking clubs to expand to these capacitys to hold it will see the vast majority of them sitting with 15,000 - 20,000 empty seats every home game.

So you have Portugal, Euro 2004 hosts, great stadiums, NEVER able to host a CL final. You have Germany, WC 2006 hosts, fantastic stadiums. Any of them over 75,000+ (Dortmund?) but the likes of Munich and Berlin are good enough for WC matches, including the final, but not good enough for the CL final.

Nah, sorry, can't agree with that idea.