[Baron Greenback]

It's been a while since I've posted so I thought I'd put this question to the floor.
The reason I ask is that I've been playing these a lot on Titan. $1+$0.20 buy in. 1000 chips. Starting blinds 5/10 and 7 minute levels.
I've been doing OK, probably not quite making up the rake. This last week, some bad luck has done for me, and a bit of tilt -chasing the confidence boosting win, has exacerbated my frustration.

The variation in competence on the tables is bewlidering. I've laid down only to see the eventual winner of the hand show junk. Then I've called a pot steal only to see Mr Loosey goosey turn over one of the two Kings he had as outs!! Quite often, the increase in blinds turns the process into a lottery as well.

Does play become more consistent on the higher buy-in? Is this just the nature of the STT? Is variance just a b1tch?!?

I won't be moving up BTW. My theory is that I should only move up if I'm consistently winning. Mind you, I may move to the low limit ring games for a break!

[Yen_Sid]

There's always an idiot whatever level you play at in my opinion. Having never played the $1 buy in STT's I can't comment much, I would imagine that it's difficult to get any real poker at that level. You said you didn't want to move up Baron, why not have a wee shot at the $5 stts? Try a couple and if it doesn't work out then don't play any more. I've played a lot of these on SportingOdds and find that cashing is not a problem. Are you playing the 10 handed tables Baron or short handed? 10 handed tables on Spodds are a bit of a lottery really, but the short handed tables allow for some proper play.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

[kristobal]

Definetly you have to go up a level or two, I tried them STT's $1 buy-in and it really was a lottery, it seems no one cares about $1 anymore . You'll find much better poker at $5 level but to be honest, as Ed already said, there are idiots at every level. I personally do much better at $10 and $25 level then at $5 - I play on Betfair and constantly make money on this levels, you don't have to be afraid of higher stakes, it's much easier in my opinion - I don't know how long you play poker but I'm just a beginner so if I can win you can do it too.

Gl mate!

[trickrick]

I don't see much difference between $5 and $2 tables, as - as said before there are idiots at all levels, indeed I seem to have recently done better at the $5 tables, where the element of tactics and skill plays a slightly bigger part than the looser $2 games where players don't seem to give as much of a shit becuase of the low stake investment.. I must admit though, I don't think I've ever ventured to $10 + STT...Too scared still..

[Jezza]

Hi Baron.

Yeah these things turn into a lottery fairly quickly. But then again all STTs do pretty much no matter what site you play on, its just their nature. You will get many many MANY bad players at this level, that goes without saying really. This is however good for you in the long run. Dont fall into the trap of holding to the misconception "I cant beat bad players, I do much better against good players". This is complete and total bullshit. Would you rather face a table of beginners or a table of professional players? At whuch table do you think you stand the most chance of coming out ahead after 1000 games?. The reason many people say this is that bad players chase a lot and hardly ever fold hands. This is GOOD for you in the long run (just bet your good hands hard and fold your rubbish ones). You will encounter high variance because you get rivered a lot but this is just poker, you must expect it and be able to handle it mentally. You have a big edge in the long run playing like this. Once the blinds get high however you are right it becomes a lot less skill and far more of a card catching contest. This is just the nature of STTs, if you dont like this (like me) then I would suggest cash games instead.

One point I would say baron is that those STTs you are playing have a 20% rake charge. This is really horrendoues and it makes it very hard for even the best player in those STTs to profit long run. I would suggest that if you have got past the learning stage of poker and are wanting to start making some money from these games that you move up to the first level that has a 10% charge - it will increase your rate of return HUGELY.

Jez

[Yen_Sid]

Originally Posted by kristobal

You'll find much better poker at $5 level but to be honest, as Ed already said, there are idiots at every level. I personally do much better at $10 and $25 level then at $5.

Aye Kristo I do better at the higher levels for sure, dabbled in the $10 games now and then but never ventured as high as $25. Are you playing the 10 handed or 5 Kristo? As Jez said though, it can take a long long time to make any kind of decent profit. One time I played 10 games one after another, won 6, 1 runner up spot and 3 no-shows, it took almost 5 hours and to be honest it was hardly worthwhile as my profit was only about $30 if I remember correctly. Personally I've been trying to stop playing STT as I felt my tournament game was suffering. Been trying to dabble in the cash games recently which is obviously much more profitable, albeit very risky for my lowly bankroll.

[kristobal]

Originally Posted by Yen_Sid

Aye Kristo I do better at the higher levels for sure, dabbled in the $10 games now and then but never ventured as high as $25. Are you playing the 10 handed or 5 Kristo? As Jez said though, it can take a long long time to make any kind of decent profit. One time I played 10 games one after another, won 6, 1 runner up spot and 3 no-shows, it took almost 5 hours and to be honest it was hardly worthwhile as my profit was only about $30 if I remember correctly. Personally I've been trying to stop playing STT as I felt my tournament game was suffering. Been trying to dabble in the cash games recently which is obviously much more profitable, albeit very risky for my lowly bankroll.

Hi Ed,

I don't think there is a big difference between $10 and $25 tables, as I said before I play on Betfair and they have leaderboards created for different levels of tournaments, cash games and STT's, I noticed that the same players are on $10 and $25 levels so I thought if I can win against them on $10 why not on $25 ?

I don't like 10 handed games, they don't even have those, on Betfair you can play 9 or 6 handed games - I play only 6 handed.

You mentioned playing 5 hours for $30 profit, I don't have so much time as I work and come home late very often, I had the same problem so I tried playing Turbo's ( 5 min blind level) but it didn't work as my target every evening is to earn $50 - $60, I decided to step up the tempo and moved to Super Turbo's (2 min blind) and this one works for me well
I usually start at $10 level trying to earn for $25 entry - if I don't play well I loose two $10 buyins and I stop, if I play well or I'm lucky I play as long as I can , for example yesterday I played two $10 STT's and finished 2nd in both - I played well but was really unlucky in finals, I moved to $25 and played 2 games winning both for a total of $170 profit in just under 1.5 hours ( one super turbo STT takes around 15 min to comlete).It is not always as easy as yesterday but I think I'm able to do $50 a day on avarage.

[Yen_Sid]

Originally Posted by kristobal

It is not always as easy as yesterday but I think I'm able to do $50 a day on avarage.

Doing well at that then Kristo, nice going, keep it up.

[Colbro]

Hi Baron.
You could try Ladbrokes who have $2 STT's but with 10 minute levels instead of 7. This way you get about 3 or 4 levels of reasonable play before it becomes a lottery if you are still short stacked.
If not laddies then at least look for a site with a longer blind structure than 7 mins - that is what turns these games into more of a crap shoot.
The laddies $2 games also only have a 10% cost as well.

[aliensyndm]

Yeah as already mentioned the first thing you wanna do is get out of STT's with 20% rake....that really cripples your earning rate. You do get some games which are $5+$0.50 but alot are $5+$1
If you can find some $5 + $0.50 then great.

If you've observed play cash games you'll see so many people just raise to the maximum with anything every hand. It's pointless for trying to learn poker. At $1 people still don't care about it too much. There's awful players quite a way up the stake levels, way past $5 anyway.
If you move to $10+$1 games you won't suddenly find wow everyone is such a great player, what a difference ! That's not gonna happen !


Seven minutes isn't really an awful lot per level. Often if there are some hands with quite a few players then that won't even be once round the table before the blinds go up. Try a few $10 + $1 tournies , preferably with slightly longer blind levels if you can. Remember it's no different to spending a few quid on a few pints of beer, a new golf club or whatever one of your hobbies might be. Plus hey you could actaully win money here.

[kompressaur]

Thanks for posting this Baron and thanks for the great read folks. I've cut out a load of crap calling in my game just from what ive picked up in here and im finding $2 games about my level. I still do stupid calls but at least im more aware of when i'm making these calls. I'm still prone to getting beat by the odd 85 but im glad to read Jezza's comments that thats just the nature of the game. I don't want want to move up as i'm starting to get my arse felt a bit at the $2.50. If i just cut out the rash almost PLAY money style playing some hands i would be doing a bit better

[kompressaur]

my target every evening is to earn $50 - $60,

Mine is to just lose 20 quid kris

[Baron Greenback]

Wow. Some cracking responses here. Thanks everyone! I'll read them in more depth over lunch.

I had a day off yesterday. As I said, I'd been chasing for a few days on a mini-tilt. I was never going to play well when not in the right frame of mind.

I think I've possibly been a bit too conservative with my initial buy-ins. Buying too low and taking the inherent gamble with the blinds when my play would be more suited to a higher buy-in with longer levels, or maybe the cash games. I read a lot and have played on the 'net regularly (3/4 times a week) for maybe 4 months now. I'm probably better than the majority of the players at the $1 tables. Snobbery shouldn't come into it though. I've chosen my opponents and I shouldn't move away crying "variance, luck" etc. I should be able to beat these guys long term if I'm better than them. I need to concentrate more. Care more about my dollar!!

I'll keep on playing at Titan until my coffers are empty there (unless I turn into a consistent winner!) and will probably move to either laddies or stars. Titan's OK but the cash-out options aren't up to scratch.

[Baron Greenback]

I'm really struggling. I used to cash in these $1 STT's regularly but the playing style on those tables has completely changed since the ipoker migration. Everyone's so much looser, I can't get a read on anyone before my chips are down to nothing.

Last night was a real kick in the nuts. I watched a few hands unfold with lots of callers all the way through to see the winner flip bottom pair or a high card over. I decided I would push top pair hard. I need to get my money in when I have the best hand to accumulate chips. Then I have a chance to outplay these guys. When I hit top pair, after 20 hands, I push it to get called down (as I expected) by....... flopped two pair!! Aaaaaaagh! Ordinarily I would not push top pair so hard. And when I looked at the hand history, my play just looks amateurish. It's fair to say I'm a little card dry at the moment. You can't steal the blinds in these tournies any more until you get down to the bubble so you're relying on cards. But I should STILL be able to beat these tables. The play is definitely worse, so why are my results?!?!

If I move up the stakes, I feel like I'll be admitting defeat. But it's been 10 tournies since I've cashed. I'm frustrated. Is it the correct strategy to push hard with top pair at tables like these? Do I need to move to an 'all in or fold ' strategy? Should I just move up the stakes or go to a ring game where the blinds are constant?

Maybe I should stay away from the tables for a while.

[Scottieboy08]

Hi Baron

I know how frustrating these tournies are as I played them a while back for a decent length of time. Firstly, it may be right to leave STT's for a day or two to clear your head of previous bad beats/misplays etc. This helps a lot. It probably helps more in cash games as the plays can be more technical and require 100% focus and concentration; however STT's can be cruel at times due to the fast structure and having to get busy earlier than you hoped.

In terms of playing top pair hard, it can be a successful strategy but be careful who you do this against. A loose-passive is almost NEVER going to give up some sort of hand so be prepared to get outdrawn now and then. Of course, they could flop the nuts and you catch top pair/top kicker and you go broke with this strategy this way. It can obviously work the other way and your AK crushes their K3 on a K high flop.

My personal opinion is to just take a break for a few days mate, it does wonders