Folding post-flop

[GETT1NLOTS]

The problem as I see it was that your bet on the flop was a waste of time. You bet less than 1/4 of the pot. That is giving odds to a lot of people to stay in and is either announcing a monster or a weak bluff at the pot. I think the guy was right to re-raise you. You showed weakness.

Agree about the weak raise Doc but the re raise with no drawing hand was an idiot move in my opinion. There are many times when I have nothing and little drawing options and I get what I think might be a position raise or bluff raise against me. I still fold my cards and wait for a better chance to catch them when later on when they might perceive me to be weak.

[A.M.P]

Doc,

You're right - it was about 3 hands into the STT.

My raise of 3 times the SB (i.e a raise of 60 or 80 or so) was enough to make 7 fold. So, as with one of my many problems with being a newbie is the amount of the raise. I'm sure this is an elementary argument but if I rose too high in this situation wouldn't I just be left with the blinds which had just started?

Again, as a newbie I'm never sure of the right kind of raise when I'm in a strong position.

As John Goodman said in the Big lewbowski (sp?), maybe I'm just outta my element.....

oh, and don't worry Dude, they're nihilists, they're cowards...

AMP

[Doc]

It depends Gettin

its an early hand, so the blinds are probably 10/15. There is 25 in the pot and AMP makes it 45 to go. He gets three callers (I'm assuming the blinds folded), so there is 205 in the pot post flop. He bets 45 at the pot again. I'm presuming two callers folded and then the last guy re-raises. From his position it seems an ok play to me. He is getting almost 6-1 to call, and it looks like AMP missed this flop. A raise here clarifies things - if AMP calls or re-raises he has something and the other guy can shut down. If he calls then the other guy might still be able to draw out, and AMP will probably check to him so he has a free card. There is also a strong chance AMP would fold.
Say the other guy raises to 150 - he probably only needs AMP to fold about 1 time in 3 for it to be a worthwhile play. It also makes players wary of playing into him without a hand.

AMP - you need to think about each hand pre-flop in terms of what you want to face. Most times you want to win the hand as early as you can - there are too many bad things that can happen on a flop, especially against multiple hands (no matter what pocket cards you have). The main exception is hands like suited connectors - you want to see the flop cheaply, knowing you will fold the majority of the time - but on the few occasions you do fit the flop you can win money from a lot of opponents. i.e. with those hands you want to keep people in the hand so you don't want to raise them out. With something like AK you want to raise them out. There is no shame in just taking the blinds - in fact it is a key part of tournament play. You want to size your raise big enough to scare out players with weak hands which might outdraw you, but not so big that you're committed if someone holding a big hand comes over the top - e.g. an AA raises you all-in.

[moDtheGod]

No disrespect Gett1n, but just because you think you're right, it doesn'k make them idiots. "Idiot move" was the phrase you used. I love players like you on my table. You strike me as the player that comes and sits down, criticses everyone's play and spouts about things like pot odds, to show everyone how much you know. People like that give away SO much free info to the astute, good players. I'm basing thta on comments in this thread and the other one where you claim to be at least top ten, without having seen a lot of us play.

I love those types of player. Don't be one of them, that's the best tip I could give any aspiring player.

I made three resolutions this new year, about poker. One was to not do the above. I keep my mouth shut, apart from to praise bad plays so te n00bs keep doing it. My game has improved 100% since I started doing that (and since I stopped complaining about bad beats).

I might be wrong about gett1n, but I don't think I am

[GETT1NLOTS]

Good post Doc. To be honest I'll have another read in the morning as the old brain is a little fuddled with red wine at the moment.

Mod - Likewise. All I'll say is this. I'm a little tired of people keep on saying I am wrong about this and that and yet I keep winning tourneys and making money off cash games (sometimes against those same critics) too. None of this is hidden as my user name is published and when I play I'm open for anyone to watch. Nonetheless thank you for your advice and I look forward to playing you and learning from you as a result.

[moDtheGod]

Don't spin it around, I wasn't making out I was any kind of awesome player, I'm just saying I have more respect for people who handle themselves well at a poker table.

Whether you do or not I don't know and can't say, i'm just guessing. I made that clear. I might be wrong.

[GETT1NLOTS]

No disrespect Gett1n, but just because you think you're right, it doesn'k make them idiots. "Idiot move" was the phrase you used. I love players like you on my table. You strike me as the player that comes and sits down, criticses everyone's play and spouts about things like pot odds, to show everyone how much you know. People like that give away SO much free info to the astute, good players. I'm basing thta on comments in this thread and the other one where you claim to be at least top ten, without having seen a lot of us play.

I don't think I was turning it around MOD - I think you were quite clear. Either you're as good as you think you are (and you have me sussed as a 'know all spouter' or you don't). I'm willing to learn from anyone.

PS - I never comment on people at the table (i.e pot odds etc)

[moDtheGod]

I never claimed I was good. I never have done or seriously will (I will jokingly obviously)

I'm stating what I gathered from your TDP posts. Nothing more or less.

And once again, that's my impression. I'm willing to be proven wrong because I'm really not all that bothered. I was just saying!

[GETT1NLOTS]

Originally Posted by moDtheGod

No disrespect Gett1n, but just because you think you're right, it doesn'k make them idiots. "Idiot move" was the phrase you used. I love players like you on my table. You strike me as the player that comes and sits down, criticses everyone's play and spouts about things like pot odds, to show everyone how much you know. People like that give away SO much free info to the astute, good players. I'm basing thta on comments in this thread and the other one where you claim to be at least top ten, without having seen a lot of us play.

I love those types of player. Don't be one of them, that's the best tip I could give any aspiring player.

I made three resolutions this new year, about poker. One was to not do the above. I keep my mouth shut, apart from to praise bad plays so te n00bs keep doing it. My game has improved 100% since I started doing that (and since I stopped complaining about bad beats).

I might be wrong about gett1n, but I don't think I am

Hmmm - I think I need to quote your reply in full again to get the full flavour. Nope. As I thought I'm definately being given advice how to play and conduct myself here. You do admit you might be wrong but it's a kind of conciliatory after thought. I'll repeat the killer line......

I might be wrong about gett1n, but I don't think I am

Like I say Mod - I have no issues with being taught a lesson or two. Some other members have promised to do the same on three forums. I'm still waiting in the comps we arrange mind you - but enough of that..... :tongue: :tongue:

[moDtheGod]

Yeh but I said that witout having seen you play. I never once give you specific advice. It's general. I keep it seperate from the assumption about you and your poker style and I address the general public.

The last line is pretty tongue in cheek, no? Okay I do believe it, but it's still a playful comment with no real threat or intention. I never said I was going to teach you any lessons or that I was going to beat you. I think yo're taking it too personally, as you say - it's late.

I'm not looking for an argument so I'll leave it there. I'm not a particularly gret player and don't claim to be. I play for fun more than money and am a relative beginner so I'm not in a position to preach.

[aliensyndm]

Think I might print that last post out and bring it into DUPS

[GETT1NLOTS]

Hairy muff Mod. Welcome to the world of Gett1n's 'pissed up argumentative style'. I'm a sixth dan don't you know.