Trying to learn SH cash games..

[cains]

my 2nd losing a full buy in..
The first one was with KK vs AA.. Nothing i can do there...

But what about this one???

Game #3277034784: Hold'em NL ($0.25/$0.50) - 2006/08/31 - 09:28:48 (ET)
Table "OtterburnPark" Seat 4 is the button.
Seat 1: cains ($43.15 in chips)
Seat 2: Liqorice ($50.40 in chips)
Seat 4: bolo34 ($25 in chips)
Seat 5: Wyern ($49.50 in chips)
Seat 6: Ravenwing ($28.53 in chips)
Wyern: posts small blind $0.25
Ravenwing: posts big blind $0.50
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to cains [Kh Kd]
cains: raises to $2.50
Liqorice: folds
bolo34: calls $2.50
Wyern: calls $2.25
Ravenwing: folds
----- FLOP ----- [9d Ks Td]
Wyern: bets $7
Eldpojken joins the table at seat #3
cains: raises to $40.65 and is all-in
bolo34: folds
Wyern: calls $33.65
----- TURN ----- [9d Ks Td][4h]
----- RIVER ----- [9d Ks Td 4h][7d]
----- SHOW DOWN -----
cains: shows [Kh Kd] (Three of a kind, Kings, Ten high)
Wyern: shows [Jh Qh] (A Straight, King high)
Wyern collects $86.30 from Main pot
----- SUMMARY -----
Total pot $89.30 Main pot $86.30 Rake $3
Board [9d Ks Td 4h 7d]
Seat 1: cains showed [Kh Kd] and lost
Seat 2: Liqorice folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: bolo34 (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 5: Wyern (small blind) showed [Jh Qh] and won ($86.30) with A Straight, King high
Seat 6: Ravenwing (big blind) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

[mrmuzeman]

Nah cant fault you there mate, just one of those ones where you lose your money quite a lot of the time. You still had 2/1 chance of winning and that was THE worst case scenario. Hes played that very well leading full pot with the nuts, exactly why you should play like that cos you see what happens.

[christianu]

Yeah of course you can do nothing else there cains, shorthanded or otherwise doesnt really matter, your losing your money there. Like muse said you especially dont expect most players to lead with the nuts.

[pistol984]

I don't think you did much wrong there mate.

Pre flop you were spot on with the raise. I'm not so sure about the small blinds call there. It's not one I'd have made from the small blind but I know players who will.

I think on the flop you have to raise to find out where you are. With him betting like that i'd maybe be thinking he's on AK and I'd raise to find out where I was. There's always the possibility of him flopping another set too as those hands wouldn't have been binned, so yet again you raise and get his chips in. He could also have been betting a draw, maybe the flush, an open ender or a combination of both.

You're pretty much always going to have to re-raise his bet there. I think the all in is ok too because even if you just re-raise you're going to be commited anyway. And you've still got outs.

I think you played it well

Unlucky mate.

[mrmuzeman]

Which is exactly why you should do it

In this case it just speeded things up though its hardly ever not going to end in a stacking for one of you. You HAVE to raise, no question, youve got 99, 1010, 109, K10 that will all pay you off practically drawing dead. Maybe even AK as well.

THEN all the drawing hands out there means you MUST raise. Theres loads of drawing hands which will pay you off on an all in here. AKd, KQd, KJd, AQd, AJd, 87d. Loooooads you just ran into the made hand.

[christianu]

Yeah course, definitely lead with the nuts there.

A lot of bad players would just have called there with KKK thinking they were slowplaying or trapping or worse they would put in a nice solid min raise

[cains]

Thanks all.

I also came to the conclusion i didnt do anything wrong.. But just wanted to be sure...

And like you all say.. Lots of drawing hands....

ill be right back with more hands next couple of days i think.

[mrmuzeman]

I think so too Cains

Just joking mate

[Jezza]

Absolutely nothing wrong there cains, I get stacked there everytime. You want the money in on the flop in that hand and even if he has QJ you have a decent chance.


Jez

[cains]

AH SHUT UP.

well it seems like im winning in the beginning of each session..
And then it all go tits up..

Defently some things i need to learn, before i can make steady profit in cash games like i did in stt

[cains]

Above post was to muze..

Sorry jezz

You just sneaked in a post there..

[Jezza]

LOL np

[cains]

Another hand.

Well.. My bigger raise than normal preflop, was because i was small blind, so hoped to scare a few or all out..

Made a big bet on flop, since i though flop could have missed everyone..
Icon21 called within a split second
But since he was almost all in now, i didnt spend more time thinking on him, since there was nothing i could do..
Hoped to get the river for free with my check, but he raised... But i felt that raise was so small, that my odds was good enough.. Dont know if it was. But felt A and J was outs.. So thats 6.. And with some luck.. Ace High J kicker as well...

Im not sure i played this correct.. But got lucky on river.


PokerStars Game #6119746551: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2006/08/31 - 14:46:07 (ET)
Table 'Holda' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: dsaunders ($31.90 in chips)
Seat 2: cains ($44.50 in chips)
Seat 3: goHabs12 ($53.85 in chips)
Seat 4: Boston pkt 8 ($107.35 in chips)
Seat 5: icon21 ($9.75 in chips)
Seat 6: SuperJesus69 ($13.10 in chips)
cains: posts small blind $0.25
goHabs12: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to cains [Ad Jc]
Boston pkt 8: folds
icon21: calls $0.50
SuperJesus69: folds
dsaunders: calls $0.50
cains: raises $2.50 to $3
goHabs12: folds
icon21: calls $2.50
dsaunders: calls $2.50
*** FLOP *** [5h 3d 8c]
cains: bets $6
icon21: calls $6
dsaunders: calls $6
*** TURN *** [5h 3d 8c] [9d]
cains: checks
icon21: checks
dsaunders: bets $3
cains: calls $3
icon21: calls $0.75 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [5h 3d 8c 9d] [Js]
cains: checks
dsaunders: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
cains: shows [Ad Jc] (a pair of Jacks)
dsaunders: shows [8h Ac] (a pair of Eights)
cains collected $4.30 from side pot
icon21: shows [6d 4d] (high card Jack)
cains collected $28.35 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $34.25 Main pot $28.35. Side pot $4.30. | Rake $1.60
Board [5h 3d 8c 9d Js]
Seat 1: dsaunders (button) showed [8h Ac] and lost with a pair of Eights
Seat 2: cains (small blind) showed [Ad Jc] and won ($32.65) with a pair of Jacks
Seat 3: goHabs12 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: Boston pkt 8 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: icon21 showed [6d 4d] and lost with high card Jack
Seat 6: SuperJesus69 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

[aliensyndm]

Urgh I don't like that play at all cains. Raising large in the small blind ie way out of position with a marginal hand like AJ. Ok so you've bet the flop too as if you have AA but yer bet is still a little weak, $6 into a 9$ pot is it ?
If yer gonna raise in the small blind like that make sure you actually got AA I would say ! You might well be ahead of one of the people if they are drawing but it's unlikely you are ahead of both. Problem is your position you've no idea at all about where you are. Is the guy drawing to a straight ? Has he got an overpair ? Has he made a pair ? The guy could well miss his draw but he'd be able to take the pot off you. He could have AQ or AK himself !
If the river is an ace you could lose alot of cash to that. If it's anything other than a jack can you realistically call anything there ? Not really.
You got lucky and hit your only out. Notice though when you were actually ahead in the pot ie before the flop you put in $3. When you were behind you put in the most cash and when you were ahead again on the river you didn't get any cash in at all.

Once the hand is in action I'd say it's ok to call the $3 on the turn as long as you don't go throwing a load of cash at the hand if you hit something on the river. As it turned out you only had three outs rather than six. The guy could have the bollox so you can't go throwing too much cash on the river even if you do hit. Also if you did actually have AA here, and you've played the hand almost as if you did, note the guy is calling your bet with A8.
Also if you flop an ace and someone else has AQ or AK you might also end up in trouble in that hand and being out of position it's very hard to tell what you are up against.

[Jezza]

Hi Cains,

Hmm the second hand is quite hard to play I agree. Preflop is debateable. Several aggressive players would raise here. Certainly with 4 players or less I would defo raise with the old ace jack here but out of position against 5 opponents its debateable either way. There is nothing wrong with raising really, just be aware you are going to have to play OOP from now on in!

Ok on the flop well......I think here it is unlikely your opponents hit it really, against 1 opponent I would definately CB - against 2 its marginal. Plenty of players do this and it is certainly not a bad play its just debateable. It definately is in your favour there is no draw really you are getting called by probably (bar some weird straight) so a CB has more merit. I think your bet is ok here but probably I would have checked, if I was to bet I would bet a little more prob.

The turn you have to give up to any sizeable bet really, 67 completed and you have to wonder what they are both flat calling with. You were given ridiculously good odds on the call tho to be fair so again I can understand it. You cant really be faulted for calling 3 into a pot of 22 or so to try and jammy a river lol, just be wary of doing this in the future............

Jez