[Jezza]

Full Tilt Poker $2/$4 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

SB: $392.00
BB: $410.00
Hero (UTG): $485.60
UTG+1: $907.30
UTG+2: $421.20
MP1: $400.00
MP2: $133.20
CO: $254.35
BTN: $484.60

Pre Flop: Hero is UTG with K K
Hero raises to $14, 5 folds, BTN calls $14, SB raises to $68, 1 fold, Hero calls $54, 1 fold

Flop: ($154.00) Q J 9 rainbow (2 players)
SB bets $111



what would you do?

[kompressaur]

Shit myself Jez Soz i aint much good on these threads. I think i would throw in what i have left and shut my eyes. I'm sure that folks can offer a more sensible answer though.

[Yen_Sid]

Originally Posted by kompressaur

I'm sure that folks can offer a more sensible answer though.

I can't.

Same as komp for me. I'm guessing you'll fold here Jez, but like mr komp I'm also shit on these threads. I'll guess he's holding TT or 99, 99 meaning you're obviously behind at this stage. I'll say no more as no doubt I'll be a mile off. C'mon Jez spill the beans.

[alexross]

I shove. His Squeeze means he has a big pair, maybe QQ, possibly AK for a monster draw. Gotta be willing to gamble, and if u lose a BI so be it.

why you didnt reraise aipf is beyond me.

[Scottieboy08]

Hi Jez

Against an unknown i'd call flop and fold turn. Any reason we didn't 4-bump it to 170 pre?
(BIG 3-bet by villain btw)

[Jezza]

I think this is a pretty annoying, but easy fold on the flop. His range is basically JJ+ or AK. Almost every hand he could have now has me crushed on the flop so I should fold to the large bet. He could have AK preflop I agree but I doubt he fires so large with a missed AK into me there. If he had AK then he has to know how likely that flop is to have helped me (I mean in his eyes I could very well have QQ or JJ there if he has AK). and I think he would check/fold tbh.

As for the preflop line well. The basic idea is to get JJ or QQ to 100% always stack off on a low flop like 992 etc. I will also pick off a cbet from AK probably on those sort of flops as well (he is far more likely to cbet AK on that flop than the one we actually got). I think the optimum line here is definately to flat the reraise preflop. Given that I am an UTG raiser with no crazy history a decent player can fold QQ and certainly JJ to a a big 4 bet by me pre. If he was a known total mug then I would just have reraised yes, because a mug cant get away from QQ here but he seemed solid to me. I would also flat AA here most of the time pre.

I also posted this hand on 2+2 btw. everyone seems to agree on the fold there with some debate on the preflop thing. I think the small argument ended up with flatting preflop being the most optimum strategy. heres the link to the thread.

Tough spot with KK - 400 NL - Two Plus Two Forums

[Scottieboy08]

Good thread on 2+2, are we completely ruling out TT here cos you're UTG Jez?

[Doc]

I agree he is probably on a big pair, but there is some chance of AK too (downgraded a lot by his big flop bet).

If you call the flop you're committed for the rest of your (actually his) stack. Basically your play is push for another 330 to win 470ish. If he has made his set you have 4 tens and 2 Kings as outs - more or less 20-25% if you allow for him making a house some of those times.
The tens aren't as valuable as outs though as some of those rare times he has AK he makes the nut straight. You're well ahead of AK, but vulnerable to seven cards (the aces and the tens). AA has you more or less the same position as a set. He could also have KK.

Overall I think a fold is good, unless the guy is nuts. I assume at 2/4 you don't get this sort of pre-flop action from someone with Ax (where x is a ten to queen) or something like KQs?

[Scottieboy08]

Good point doc, completely missed stack sizes in relation to the 3bet or vise versa. Yeah, it's a fold. I still might call one street if stacks were deeper, but that might be a leak.