64s v 2 all-ins

[kompressaur]

I don't mind you telling me that i played this wrongly in 2 or 3 differant ways but i have to ask to dispell any myth or bad habits i may hold. The table was pretty loose and i have a load of other things to do and i didnt mind taking a beat. terrible strategy i know. Ok so the 1st call of mine could be maginal in itself and the 2nd call could be just bad play. By the time it came back to me the pot looked pretty big and i was working on the 'any 2 cards can win' motif Was i wrong to do this play and how wrong was i?

Dealer: silverlad1 posts Small Blind 10
Dealer: ampuffinnow posts Big Blind 20
Dealer: Dealing cards
Dealer: Your cards 4h 6h
Dealer: f4ngs raises 60
Dealer: feargal folds
Dealer: soupdragon2 calls 60
Dealer: 810504 calls 60
Dealer: thedailypuntcom calls 60
Dealer: RozxBeef folds
Dealer: pijy25 folds
Dealer: silverlad1 calls 50
Dealer: ampuffinnow raises 80
Dealer: f4ngs raises 140
Dealer: soupdragon2 calls 140
Dealer: 810504 calls 140
Dealer: thedailypuntcom calls 140
Dealer: silverlad1 calls 140
Dealer: ampuffinnow goes All-in 1,880
Dealer: f4ngs goes All-in 1,300
Dealer: soupdragon2 folds
Dealer: 810504 folds
Dealer: thedailypuntcom goes All-in 1,260
Dealer: silverlad1 folds
Dealer: Dealing Flop
5c 3h 4s
Dealer: Dealing Turn
5c 3h 4s 2h
Dealer: Dealing River
5c 3h 4s 2h Kd
Dealer: thedailypuntcom shows Straight
4h 6h
Dealer: ampuffinnow shows Straight
Qd Ad
Dealer: f4ngs shows One Pair
9d 9c
Dealer: ampuffinnow wins with Straight
Ad 2h 3h 4s 5c 560
Dealer: ampuffinnow wins with Straight
Ad 2h 3h 4s 5c 560
Dealer: thedailypuntcom wins with Straight
2h 3h 4s 5c 6h 4,980
Dealer: thedailypuntcom wins with Straight
2h 3h 4s 5c 6h 4,980
Dealer: Player ampuffinnow wins side pot 560
Dealer: Player ampuffinnow wins side pot 560
Dealer: Player thedailypuntcom wins the main pot 4,980
Dealer: Player thedailypuntcom wins the main pot 4,980
Dealer: f4ngs has finished tournament in 9. place

[kompressaur]

bah i was in a middle position too. I shouldnt have called the 2nd bet should i? i got lucky and nothing more. I just layed a pair of 4's if that improves my table image any lol

[Yen_Sid]

You should've folded it, even without the x3 raise the guy put in you should still have folded, end of story. Anyway, you didn't fold and you got lucky so well done on taking the pot fishy breeks.

[kompressaur]

i dont do much talking at the table Ed but i nearly said sorry. No i never i nearly said 'i was just playing the odds man' :;lol

I dont know if i should try stunts like this either. Stuffy table.

Dealer: noseyP posts Small Blind 30
Dealer: RouvaKK posts Big Blind 60
Dealer: Dealing cards
Dealer: Your cards 2c 2d
Dealer: galaxy58 folds
Dealer: orcman folds
Dealer: pecar calls 60
Dealer: ZincTontium folds
Dealer: thedailypuntcom calls 60
Dealer: jackiller folds
Dealer: noseyP calls 30
Dealer: RouvaKK checks
Dealer: Dealing Flop
Ks Qd 6h
Dealer: noseyP checks
Dealer: RouvaKK checks
Dealer: pecar checks
Dealer: thedailypuntcom checks
Dealer: Dealing Turn
Ks Qd 6h 4c
Dealer: noseyP checks
Dealer: RouvaKK bets 180
Dealer: pecar calls 180
Dealer: thedailypuntcom goes All-in 1,240

The didnt call but i for a second realised that poker was all about instinct and i knew i was going all in no matter what. I dont think i was even getting as good odds as i thought. Maybe i am just a jackal fish type character

[kompressaur]

i my defence of the first hand i did think that both of them were in with Ax I suppose me not caring if i got beat helps me understand the proper play better does it?

[kompressaur]

ive been thinking more about this and im still confused. If a 64s has a 41% chance v a AK and i ws putting both opponents on Aq and aj and the like, surely i was getting the odds to call?

[kompressaur]

i still think i was getting the odds to call

[mrmuzeman]

In this actual case (vs AQd and 99) your 64h has a 21% chance of winning. So if were talking purely about the math of it (which we're not cos this is a tourny not a cash game and surviving through folding is just as or more important) you need to get a 4/1 payoff to make it 'worthwhile' to call. Are you? Youre putting in 1260 more to win 3720, so thats about 3/1, eg - a long term guaranteed losing play.

If they had AK and AJ or just both Ax like you thought (I dont know why AT ALL you wouldnt think 1 of them had a pocket pair 77-AA though) then you would be between a 33% and 38% chance to win the pot depending on what sort of Ax they had and if it was suited etc. So in this scenario yes you would be getting the odds to call in a pure math sense as youve a 2/1ish chance of winning and are being piad 3/1. Imo that really and totally doesnt matter though because I think youre facing a decent pocket pair from 1 of them a majority of the time and then youre fcuked oddswise as you saw above.

PLUS even if you were getting a bit of value in that Ax scenario just folding and retaining your chips is much the better play. Just calling off all your chips with a 62-67% chance of exiting the game isnt the best tournament survival strategy I would say.

The only part you got right in this hand I think is the second call when theres a small reraise for 80 more. Theres a ton of money in the pot and lots of players so worth it. The original call for 60 is totally marginal and not worth bothering with but not awful or anything but I wouldnt bother tbh. The all in call was pretty horrendous truth be told.

[kompressaur]

thanks Mr M. Least that solves that one. I never even thought one of them had a pair i have to admit Im glad you explained it all Mr M as i would probably have continued to do that and continued to lose or annoyed my oppnents. Is there ever a time when you could call an all-in with 65s say?

[kompressaur]

I have since learned since then and yes i can confirm i was a fud. A lucky fud but still a fud. there is no fun in winning with 2nd best hands. Unless you get LOADS of chips