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A heads up hand

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Old 14-06-2007, 14:48
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A heads up hand

Ok,

I play quite a lot of heads up cash game poker. This hand is from early this afternoon on the ipoker network. There were no decent 5/10 or 3/6 games running so I decided to drop down and play w the 2/4 crew. I had only played a couple of hands before this one with the opponent so I had no real idea how he played or how tough he was. The only clues I had was that he bought in for the maximum during the weekday daytiime. With no other information I generally take this to mean he is a decent player.

There are SO many different ways I could have played this hand so I would like all your opinions and what you would have done differently. Also as played do you call the river? If you call or if you fold what do you put him on to make the call/fold? Note its hard to tell from the hand history but on the river the pot is 96 dollars and he bets 212 into it.

Jez

GAME #575379951: Texas Hold'em NL $2.00/$4.00 2007-06-14 10:52:00
Table Bosbokrand (No DP)
Seat 6: SUITEDPOWER ($456.00 in chips)
Seat 10: IngoBear ($426.00 in chips) DEALER
IngoBear: Post SB $2.00
SUITEDPOWER: Post BB $4.00
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to SUITEDPOWER [DA D3]
IngoBear: Call $2.00
SUITEDPOWER: Check
*** FLOP *** [S4 SA HQ]
SUITEDPOWER: Check
IngoBear: Bet $12.00
SUITEDPOWER: Call $12.00
*** TURN *** [D10]
SUITEDPOWER: Check
IngoBear: Bet $32.00
SUITEDPOWER: Call $32.00
*** RIVER *** [C9]
SUITEDPOWER: Check
IngoBear: Bet $212.00
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Old 14-06-2007, 15:12
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Re: A heads up hand

I struggle with putting people on hands in HU sometimes and the way in which youve just given him rope here makes it really hard to put him on a hand with any confidence I think.

He limped the button and potted when checked to on the flop which means precisely nothing. He could have AA he could have 23o at this point. When he pots the turn I dont think he has nothing anymore but he could have any pair or draw really so youd think your top pair was still good most of the time.

So the river bet is the only information that I can really get from anything. A proper overbet hmm. To me personally that says more strength than bluffy weakness. If he just had a 1 pair of some sort I dont think hed bother with that bet at all, he would probably just check behind. So imo hes either got you beat (eg, better than 1 pair) or is bluffing a missed draw (likely spades).

The way youve played it though he could easily be putting YOU on a draw with the check/calling and if thats the case why would be need to bet so big at the end? If say he had nothing much either but thought you had a draw then surely hed just do a decent bet or pot it at the most. For that reason I know I would fold it and figure him for some weird 2 pair combo.

Youd have to be pretty sure he was bluffing to call this as you have to be right half the time to make it a worthwhile call. It wouldnt surprise me if he were bluffing but im not confident in it enough to call that big bet. He aint putting you on top pair though so I dont think a calls awful or anything. If hed potted it or less I would have called it.

Last edited by mrmuzeman : 14-06-2007 at 15:18.
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Old 14-06-2007, 15:20
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Re: A heads up hand

too big a bet for me to call. You have to call 212 to win 520. The question is does he have a hand weaker than A3 less than 41% of the time. I doubt it, so I fold.

Your play here seems quite passive for heads up - I take it you were just mixing things up here?
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Old 14-06-2007, 15:56
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Re: A heads up hand

I would be betting my ace pre flop in a heads up game. So for that reason I'm assuming he doesn't have an ace due to his limp in. Normally I'm a mile out with these threads but I'm also not putting him on an open ended draw with KJ, as I'd be expecting him to raise pre flop with KJ. I'll plump for a spade flush draw but with him holding the Qs giving him (in his mind) a bit of a safety net as he will definitely not have you on an ace.

I'm 100 miles off aint i?
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Old 14-06-2007, 16:02
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Re: A heads up hand

Well if he is bluffing he does have something like that Ed as per what I said below

Quote:
So imo hes either got you beat (eg, better than 1 pair) or is bluffing a missed draw (likely spades).
Youre right thinking about what hed raise with preflop also. 99% of the time hed raise with an A or KJ.

Quote:
You have to call 212 to win 520.
212 to win 308 but I know what you mean.
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Old 15-06-2007, 14:06
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Re: A heads up hand

Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorOfDanger View Post
too big a bet for me to call. You have to call 212 to win 520. The question is does he have a hand weaker than A3 less than 41% of the time. I doubt it, so I fold.

Your play here seems quite passive for heads up - I take it you were just mixing things up here?
I agree here. You don't have enough information at this point to call the large bet. There are a wide range of hands he could be on although the fav for me would be some kind of spade draw where he has hit some part of the flop or turn.

On another note, if you did call, what amount would you call up to $30, $60 $212 etc?
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Old 15-06-2007, 21:41
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Re: A heads up hand

Agree with the points on a river fold Jez. Simply too little info as played to call this vs an unknown. I'd be betting the flop and going on from there. I take it the pf check was for deception with the A so I'd continue the disguise by leading in with TP on the flop.
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Old 30-06-2007, 15:17
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Re: A heads up hand

So what was the answer?
Did you fold Jez?
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Old 03-07-2007, 10:50
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Re: A heads up hand

sorry about the delay colbro, you made that post right as I left for edin as well Ill post up the results/thinking later. I called and won the hand.
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Old 03-07-2007, 16:45
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Re: A heads up hand

my tuppence worth ... i think he has 10 j ! and i agree with most in that i would be betting the flop . but your last post obviously helped my thinking
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Old 05-07-2007, 18:12
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Re: A heads up hand

Bump

Like to know your thought processes here Jez and the subsequent hand he showed
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Old 08-07-2007, 11:51
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Re: A heads up hand

Ok this hand was a really tough spot.....

Preflop is very debateable I know. Any ace is usually the best hand preflop in a HU game and it is standard practice to raise with it, certainly it is done almost every time. But occasionally I limp them to disguise it if it hits. Especially OOP it can be very tough to play a raised pot when you miss the flop or hit only a marginal hand, this is another reason I just checked preflop here although against a passive/easy to read opponent I would almost always raise preflop. I did not assume this opponent to be passive/easy so I decided to just check.

The flop is good obviously. I highly doubt he has the ace as well or he would have raised preflop. Infact I doubt he has a good queen either (like KQ or JQ etc) because Im sure he would have raised them. I doubt he has the broadway straight draw as he would have raised preflop also with a JT or KJ type hand but by betting I would be protecting against the wheel draw which he could have. Again I could (and a lot of the time would) bet here due to the flush draw and hoping to get value out of a Q or 4 as he is certainly not going to think I have the ace. But I decide to continue the slowplay and check (just like I would if I was weak). If he checks behind I am probably going to stick in small value bets on the turn/river hoping he catches a little piece and gets curious as to what I have as my line will look a little strange. So I check, and he overbets a bit! (12 into 8). Hmmmmm. Like I said before I rule out the ace as he would have raised preflop. Or even a good Queen. This leaves basically A flush draw/a bad Q or a 4/a bluff. All of these are pretty likely. Two pair is also possible but I really dont think he would bet that so strong here, I mean he cant expect to get any action out of me on this board if he holds Q4 here. I decide to take a chance and just call. If a spade comes I am going to puke but there is no way he knows I am as strong as top pair and I want to get max value for this hand. A CR protects against the flush draw but it probably loses the other hands we beat and if he reraises me its going to be headscratching time..... so lets see a turn......

Well the turn was pretty good. A spade would have been really bad, as would the Q or 4 pairing. Like I said before I have discounted KJ as he would have raised preflop with that. I think he would have with QT as well so there is no reason to suspect that this turn helped him. It MIGHT have helped 4T but that is about the only hand it hits that I can put in his range at the moment. I should have said in the flop play that I can basically discount a set from him. He would have raised preflop wtih a PP. The only pair he MIGHT have limped is AA (and well is that really the case ace out there?) and even if he did do that and we did get this flop he either checks the flop or bets it smaller than he did (same goes for QQ) so no, he doesnt have a set. I decide to continue the slowplay and check again. My hand looks extremely weak now. A lead here would be great as well because it protects against what could now be a scary river (any JKQ4 or spade is gonna look sick!) but I just dont want to get raised at the moment if he is good enough to do that on a bluff/semibluff. There is a big chance he just tried to bluff the flop seeing as my hand looks so weak so why stop him doing that if he wants to continue shipping dollars to my stash. so I check again. Wow a full pot bet eh. The only hand I am worried about now is precisely T4. I dont think he has anything else that could be beating me for the above reasons. He could have a massive draw on me now with a broadway card and 2spades in his hand but meh I am not so sure he bets that on the turn (he probably checks it behind). I dont want to blow him off his probable bluff nor do I want to get reraised which would just be sick, so I flat call (with the intention of calling a river bet).

Well the river was great, the spades missed, the Q and 4 didnt pair and there isnt 4 cards to the broadway straight on board. The 9 is innocuos looking but of course this is a limped HU pot and he could have 94 (maybe Q9). I weight it up and decide if I bet a little I might get a curious call out of a queen (he would check an unimproved 4 behind on the turn). but he folds all bluffs/missed draws and if I get raised it will be sick. T4/49/Q9 would all raise me and it would be a tough decision as he MIGHT bluff raise. My hand is severely underrepped tho and he could just be running some inane bluff as he thinks I am weak as well (I dont want to stop him bluffing obv). I weigh it all up and decide to check/call anything. If he checks a Q behind I will be a bit annoyed obv but in the long run its the best play I reckon, so I check.

Wow, thats a fcuking big bet . I remember playing this hand clearly and I had checked with the intention of calling anything but when he bet it completely threw me and I sat right back in my seat and screwed my face up in disgust . I mean its way more than pot size. I have to be pretty suire of myself to call here so I took a long time to think it over. I can be pretty sure he doesnt have the ace or the straight as he would have raised preflop with any cards that are needed for those. I can also be pretty sure he doesnt have a set for the reasons mentioned before. I doubt he had two pair on the flop as I think he probably checks that/bets small. This leaves T4 and Q9 as the hands beating me (he would have checked 94 on the turn probably) These are a very big part of his range unfortunately and the big bet makes them even more likely. When you get these massive overbets on the river it is almost always the nuts or close to it unless there is a huge reason to suspect a bluff. The problem here is that my hand is so underrepped. I mean he must be putting me on a stubborn Q or 4 or possibly a draw that has called him down. No way he thinks I have the ace. I cant figure out why he would bet so much if he wanted paid off if my hand is so weak (players do still try this tho which is why I took so long to think about this call). This was basically the deciding factor in my call, the fact I have check/called this hand the whole way including the river ups the chance he is trying some sort of crazy bluff in this limped pot. I still think it is a very close call and I will be shown T4 or Q9 a lot of the time on a call (and feel like a total twat when I do). There is also the spade draw that missed but I dunno, he would probably have checked the turn with that. I called eventually and I probably expect to lose here about half the time so its close but he had K5spades

Jez
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