Pot Rocking Beats!

[A.M.P]

O.k, so I know poker's a game of chance.

For example yesterday I went all-in with AKo against a 66 and an ace came on the flop. A 6 came on the turn and that was me done. Those kind of things I can accept (one of my poker pet hates though is when some numpty calls you with a pile-of-sh!te and wins on a flush but thats another story).

There are times though that I'm glad I only play online and no-one apart from my neighbours (who think all foreigners are crazy anyway) can hear me swearing and punching the wall.

This is one of them. I drew A / rag suited. When all the overcards were dealt there was 3 of my suit giving me a flush, and 2 fives. (There wasn't any card higher than an eight if I remeber rightly). Now, the last round of betting comes and somebody pre-empts me and sticks in a high raise. I naturally assume he's on a flush draw and having the Ace I was on to a winner. So, I went all in and he had a full house, 8s full of 5s. Gutted.

Now, is that just a bad beat or should I just accept that it happens? I find myself "bottling" some raises (when a blatant flush/straight is in the offing), only to find they didn't have what I put them on. So was the fact that he didn't raise as soon as the flush hit a missed sign perhaps?

Anywho, just thought I share as no doubt if you play you have many similar stories. i don't mind too much because I've had fun recently raising on that Ace suited when the other guy has a Q/K so it balances out I guess.

Looking forward to the first TDP Tournie.

AMP

[GaNgStA kEeKs]

Im new to Poker so to speak, but you just have to take that with a pinch of salt. From my experience, and im more than likely wrong, if you have a flush the chances of you getting beat by a full house is unlikely - think you were just unlucky.

And i know exactly what you mean about twats calling you with nothing. In tournament yesterday i had AA to begin with(pre flop? Not entirely sure of lingo yet) and the twat goes all in before the flop, so due to me beginning to fall away i decide its time to become aggresive, also because he's been bluffing nearly every one of his hands so i assumed he was again. I then see his hand and he has a 2 and 6, and what comes up? 3,4,5,7

[GETT1NLOTS]

It all depends on position AMP.

If the guy was on the BB or maybe even the SB (and no raises were made pre flop) then he has every right to see the flop. If he called a raise pre flop with 5, 8 he was a tit.

If you're in early position then playing with A, Rag is a dangerous ploy. If an Ace comes on the flop you are in the pot and might get done on the kicker anyway. If an ace doesn't come you might be tempted to stick with your hand as you have the best overcard and throw good money after bad. I only play A, Rag if I am in late position and in a tournement where the blinds are killing me. Other than that I wouldn't have been in the pot you describe anyway. A, Rag is one of the biggest killers I know.

Just my thoughts.

[GETT1NLOTS]

And i know exactly what you mean about twats calling you with nothing. In tournament yesterday i had AA to begin with(pre flop? Not entirely sure of lingo yet) and the twat goes all in before the flop, so due to me beginning to fall away i decide its time to become aggresive, also because he's been bluffing nearly every one of his hands so i assumed he was again. I then see his hand and he has a 2 and 6, and what comes up? 3,4,5,7

Kiko - was it early in the tournement? Was it a freeroll? This can make a difference in the way people play. Some people are very loose and aggressive early in a tournement - especially for low stake entry comps. On freerolls they are just crazy.

The only thing I will say in the crazy mans defence is that he raised all in. He didn't call an all in raise. That's called bluffing and is a valid play.

Still a horrible beat for you though.

[A.M.P]

Cheers for the comments.

On a tournie break (somehow just squandered 4k and am now way below the average..) so I'll keep this brief.

Much like Kiko I'm a new poker player so I play really small stake NL. 10c/20c tables with the average pot being about 4/5 bucks. As I understand it this is a bit different to when you play for "proper" blinds. Very few people will have an all in called from pre-flop. it happens, but rarely. That's why I do fish with the A rag suited as it'scosting me just 20c to see the flop. Now if somebody raises pre-flop 4 times the big blind (i.e 80c) I will fold.

Oh and the guy had 88 in the hole wchich caught me.

O.k, back to try and get in the money places.

AMP

[GETT1NLOTS]

88 against A, Rag made him a slight favourite pre flop by the way.

[A.M.P]

Your right Gettin, I forgot to look at it that way. I think 2 of the biggest things i have to work on is not being blinded by my hand and being too hasty and making my winning hands pay more.

For example when I get A 10 straight (which I've had over the last few days) and people stay in until the end I tend to bet what I think they'll call. Its difficult for me at this stage to pick up on opponents behavioural (sp?) patterns and my large raises tend to be greeted with folds.

Anyway, I think I'm improving. Slowly! Did o.k just now. It was a small tournament - 482 people - but I finished in 56th place and won 3 bucks. I'm absolutely skint at the moment so that could keep me amused on the pikey tables for a half-hour or so.

Bye for now,

AMP

[A.M.P]

Well - that free $3 lasted all of 15 minutes...

Somebody called my all-in of A Ko and another all-in with 4 4, and won....

You see, it's things like this that make me go poor. If that player had enough money to make it worthwhile I'd go to the cashier and get more money to go all in again. Addictive business. 4 - 4, ffs. I know, I know, it's only $3, but it's the princpal I yell ya!

Fcuk it, I'm off to bed.

AMP

[Doc]

AMP

some comments

the absolute size of the blinds and bets is irrelevant. If you are playing at a table, you need to consider the relative size of the blinds to the average bet (obviously as well as the behaviour of the other players etc). Things like "It only costs me 20c to see the flop" are effectively big leaks in your game.

some hand specific issues:

Ax (where x is a rag) is a big no-no hand at a full table, with the possible exception of a blind steal. Suited is better, but not massively.
To stay in with a suited Ace-rag (neglecting straights for the moment), you need to flop at least 2 of your suit, and even then you might be bullied out of the pot. That doesn't happen that often. Basically you have 2 of the 13 suits you need in your hand, so there are 11/52 cards useful to you - its about a 12% chance of flopping two or better, so it doesn't add massively to your hand. I'd play it from late position if I was confident of not being raised, and I'd certainly try to steal with it - but from early or middle position, I'd be very leery.

playing Ace-rag suit against 88, consider that you have only a high card and he has a pair. Assuming that your rag is lower than 8, then to beat him you need to pair your ace, make a straight or a flush. There are 3 other Aces there (with effectively 5 chances of getting one), a fairly small chance of another win with a flush or a straight - anything else and he wins - he may even 'counterfeit' some of your outs if he makes trips to your pair, or fills up when you make your flush. You are a worse than a 2:1 underdog here heads up against 88 (assuming you have A7s). If you have A4s or something else that can make a straight you increase your chance to about 35%. That btw assumes that his 88 doesn't contain one of your suits.

as for 44 - this will be a heads-up favourite against any other hand other than a higher pocket pair (its an 80-20 underdog then). Against AKo it is a 55-45 favourite, and even against AKs, it is a 51-49 favourite

[A.M.P]

Doc,

Thanks very much for your comments.

It appears (as Gettin mentioned I think) that I should take myself off and look at the odds calculators. I understand your point about the size of the bet relative to the binds. To go further on your example if you had 10 9 offsuit in late position with no raises would you call?

Which reminds me I reallu should read that poker book I've downloaded.

Thanks again,

AMP

[Doc]

glad to be of any help AMP

try here for a great little tool to calculate poker odds - its a free java download:

http://koti.mbnet.fi/jraevaar/pokerc...r/download.php

as well as holdem it'll do the sums for all the other popular poker formats.

regarding you specific question about T9, thats a real trouble hand and I'd almost never play it. I might (just might) consider it with a bunch of earlier callers, e.g. 7 or so, but even then I'd be looking to hit a straight or an open ended straight draw (other than Queen high) with no flush on board, or fold. On a passive table with no (or 1 late) caller I'd raise it or fold it, never call it.
If you have a look here:
http://p087.ezboard.com/fpunterspara...opicID=3.topic
I have some stuff on playing particular hands, stealing blinds, getting a free card etc. Its aimed at limit rather than no-limit, but a lot of the concepts would still apply.

What book have you got? There are some really awful ones out there. For NL specifically, the best I've come accross are "Harrington on Hold-em" and Doyle Brunsons "Super System 2". I can get you a free copy of the latter if you drop me a pm

[A.M.P]

Just had the sickest beat of all time!

Was playing in a 3 way tourney and was heads up, short stacked. Went all in with 99, opponent had 3,4 diamonds.

Flop: 9 c 6 d 2 s

(giving me 3 of a kind)

Turn: 5 D

River 2 D

So my full house, 9's full of 2's lost to a straight flush. Gutted.

AMP

[GaNgStA kEeKs]

Well that is an absolute sucker. Playing in a tourney there. Out of 870 people, i came 137th all cause of a stupid mistake. I was away to click check and just as i was going on it it changed to all in and then i went out :

Was doing pretty good aswell - im absolutely gutted!!

[christianu]

where do you play Kiko?

[GaNgStA kEeKs]

Right now its Coral Christian - just learning the ropes etc in freeroles. Have got Bet365 and PP downloaded so will be moving onto that when im a bit better!