Playing shit players

[Beanie]

Been playing a few live games recently, and its safe to say there's a broad range of ability in them.

Now you've got your reeeeeeeeeeealy shit players, who'll hang onto an ace or a low pair like their life depends on it - they are no problem.

But then you get the next category of players - the ones who grasp most of the various concepts to some extent, but don't understand the odds of the game.

And I find that their play is so erratic that I have a real difficulty in knowing where I stand in a particular hand - with a better player I've got a firm grasp of when I'll be able to bluff them off the pot, and just what they are likely to have, but when it comes to someone who will bet a flush draw on the river more strongly than if they were sitting there with top pair...I'm clueless.

I better point out that i'm not that great at reading new players quickly, certainly not within the first half hour of a game, so I usually end up getting badly muddled, and am usually much more comfortable playing against slightly better players.

The whole tool of representing that you have a particular hand doesn't work at all - not because they have worked out that you don't have it, but because they don't really see your actions as representing anything, as they aren't paying attention to pot/bet sizes, check raises or whatever.

Ultimately, it worked out in the end, as I was followed in on some big pots with absolute garbage, but having spent a few hours getting confused and seeing the opponents hit some fairly ridiculous river cards after I'd purposely drawn them into a pot, I'd be interested to know if anyone has a strategy for playing new players in a live game(and more specifically, unpredictably shite ones.)

[Doc]

don't try anything fancy to put it simply

The kind of players you are talking about are typically loose-passive.
Their mistakes tend to be of two categories I would say:

1) They 'just want to see the flop'
2) They overestimate the quality of their hand when they get a bit of the flop.

You have to bet your big hands pre-flop and make them pay to stay involved. You also to have to try and see the flop a lot more often with drawing hands - e.g. Axs, suited connectors, small pairs, even Kxs, QJ, KQ, JT etc
Bet aggressively when you make something on the flop - you figure to have the best hand, and otherwise, do what they do and stay around cheaply if you can to draw to something big.

Such players pay you over the long term, although they will lead to crazy fluctuations in your bank. If it is a cash game, then just keep playing - they are your ideal opponent.

If it is a tournament with rebuy, then be very aggressive early on - be prepared to use that rebuy and hope to build a big stack. If it isn't a rebuy then you'll just have to pick a favourable spot and try to make the most of it.

[christianu]

Aye Beanie, the quality of oppenets at 0.10/0.20c cash games is abysmal. Sometimes I get right pissed off with how they play as you cant really have a good game of poker with them. I let them know how shit they are and they say "you gotta be in it to win it".

I tried explaining some %'s and one said "yeah but if you go in with AA and someone has 88 and hits an 8 then your %'s go out the window" At that point I gave up.

As DOC says keep playing them as you'll end up on top.

[aliensyndm]

Don't ever try and explain %'s to anyone. Doing this alerts other opponents you may know what you are doing. Also why would you want to improve their game ? Leave them blisfully ignorant, that's what you want.
Against shit opponents you just have to bet your good hands heavily, make them pay heavily for draws. Don't try bluffing a bad player.
Nothing fancy is required against them really. Yes it can be very frustrating being called by there K 9 when you have AK with a king on the flop and they river the 9 etc but long term they are gonna lose money.
You'll get some horrid outdraws like that cos of the way they play, yeah it'll be annoying and you'll wonder why you even bother but don't get angry etc, just keep playing and you'll get it back in time.

[christianu]

Exactly my point Alien but I was saying sometimes when you get them outdraws by awful play, you know what im like, I flip and go off on one. I try and put them in there place which is pointless but I do it anyway in anger They dont listen at all anyway.

[Beanie]

Thanks all - very helpful.

'Nothing fancy' is the key I see...and I guess that was the tactic I eventually settled on last night, after losing to some stupid calls I was a bit more protective of my stack, and eventually hit 3 Jacks after the turn, going all in(a fairly big all in), and getting called with a flush draw.

I'll persist with the patient strategy next week, playing big hands strongly, and see how I get on.

PS Chris - Rather thantrying to educate your opponents when you get bad beats, why not piss and moan about them all on here instead? I miss those days

[christianu]

I miss them too Beanie, got used to Bad beats now as I was fairly new to the game then.

You will get lots of bad beats at lower levels, without ever giving many out yourself and its a pain, but in the long run etc..

No rounders for you today?

[Beanie]

Na...I'm in a fairly decent mood and don't want to spoil it.

[Beanie]

Ah well...this weeks live game starts in 40 minutes.

Armed with a good bit of patience and my awesome poker skills i'm off to rape them of their cash.



Or not...

[christianu]

Just went all in on cash game then Beanie for $25 straight from the off first to act, and somebody called. So I thought what KK, QQ, 88? KA possibbly? No he had 33 ffs! Has to be the worst call of the century. This is why it pays to play shit players.

[MickeyPaul]

Bump.

I think alien has inspired me actually. Where is he anyway?

[mrmuzeman]

Who knows. He used to be on msn 24/7 but he hasnt been on there since he left TDP to my knowledge. Shame really. He could be a bit of a cnut in some ways but I thought he was alright and he helped me out with some techy stuff a treat. I liked some of his discussions as well even if others didnt seem to much. Word on the street is hes now head eunuch in a goth cult.

[raisin man]

Where are you playing these days Bean?

Your not hitting a casino without me are you???????

We need to head to the casino in two weeks once i'm done exams. Definitely up for some good regular live game action. We can find a good tourney and make it a weekly event or something.

Also heard that the new casino at Fountain Bridge is quite good.

[GaNgStA kEeKs]

Originally Posted by MickeyPaul

Bump.

I think alien has inspired me actually. Where is he anyway?

Bump

You little swine Mickey - Trying to bump it all as if its innocent on your behalf

[bluemal]

sorry thought this was a threasd about the england team