PL propaganda

[aliensyndm]

An e mail has been sent to all PL lately....here is my response....

By the way you might wanna substitute the words PL with Paul Ross' bank balance.....

The last week on PL has seen major disruption and a huge a mount of lies and vindictive gossip aimed at hurting myself, the mods and PL in general, however it will not succeed -

It will succeed. It already has succeeded. The fact you are even reading this is a testament to it's success.
Lies and gossip ? Fraid not, just facts. Aimed at hurting mods ? What ??
We've no axe to grind with mods, in fact alot of mods have buggered off.
It's people with some sort of financial interest or a notion for arse kissing that have hung about.

Kompressaur took it on himself to ban at least 17 lurkers, after we had a major discussion in the moderators forum that this would be a stupid thing to implement. I had no choice but to hand Kompressaur a 1 month ban, quickly reduced to 1 week. This wasn't liked by Kompressaur despite him being massively in the wrong, but I saw it as total disregard for myself and the moderators on a huge issue.

Noone had ever disagreed with this. You've distorted the facts though. Originally kompressaur was de-modded. Then after a private message you read where you were called boring by him....he was banned.
He was banned for daring to speak out against you. A running theme of this whole episode.

Kompressaur has now gone his separate way, whilst he or his counterparts were stealing your email addresses, whilst being trusted as a moderator, something I can only apologise for if you do get spammed by them, but obviously you expect to trust your moderators.

Stealing e mail addresses ? That is called libel Mr Ross. Have you any proof for this ? No...because it never happened.
Libel and invasion of privacy now.The list grows.
Firstly no e mail addresses were ever stolen....this accusation has come about by an MSN conversation between Paul and Slick. Slick had said he already has alot people's email addresses on MSN. Hence he would still be able to speak/contact people from PL. I have quite a few people on MSN myself. Now Paul Ross decides this means slick has gone and "stolen" a whole load of email addresses from PL and intends to spam them all.
Spam is annoying, why would we want to spam people anyway ? It won't do us any favours.
Did anyone notice the high amount of people viewing the lurkers thread and it's predecessors (before they were deleted) got ? Did someone spam round telling people to view it ? No it was spread by word of mouth, from one person to another.
Paul is lying here. Notice it's something he said he doesn't do - often the sign of a liar !!
I may also add slick was banned even before the MSN conversation I mentioned took place. He was banned cos he even dare mention a site he may start in a post.

These PM's are tracked only for a certain amount of posts for new posters only. Once they are over this limit, they are no longer tracked. I do this to protect PL from scammers, not to be big brother. It remains a fact that any website can do this and more, because it is all part of a database. I would like to reiterate that I run around 5 websites along with PL, and as I've said, even if I was sad enough to want to check everyone, I simply don't have the time, but only new posters are tracked, and you have my word on that. Anybody wishing to discuss this issue, can PM me with their details and I will call you at your chosen time, or meet you in person at Worcester Racecourse on June 15th, but I can assure you it is nothing more than vicious lies.

I still cannot believe you are even trying to defend this.
The excuse for reading them makes it even more obvious you are lying.
Certain amount of posts for new posters only
The person in question had 2 posts and was already a member for 7 months.
Not exactly new poster.
Would this person appear to be a spamming threat ?
I put it to you that this person(and many others probably) had their PMs checked out of Paul Ross' paranoia and desire to see what was being said about him.
Remember also....anyones' PMs could be read, all you have to say they weren't is Paul Ross' word on that. Would you trust that ?

My main income is not Punters Lounge, far from it quite frankly. So, bearing that in mind I could forget PL completely and not care.

I find that hard to believe. Especially considering some of your aqquaintances have told me they know how much money you make from PL and it's sister sites. Perhaps you make shed loads more cash on some other site I have no idea about. To say you would forget PL and a 4 figure sum per month of cash and not care......you have to be pretty minted to say that. Either that or you are just saying that to make it look like money is not the issue.
Notice not once has the amount of cash made even been denied.

However, it was me who paid a 4 figure sum for Punters Lounge when it was dying from strangulation.

Oh you mean after you had already buggered off and tried to set up your own web site ?(which failed) So you come back and purchase one already set up.

Anyone could have contacted the previous owner and done what I did well before I acted, but where were they ?

Erm Ollie was in Iraq down some tunnel no ? Did you not use this as an oppurtunity to buy the URL without Ollie knowing ? Exactly how many people were aware of how to contact Ollie ?

I bought Punters Lounge not as a business as it is being proclaimed I did, because quite frankly it doesn't even make 10% of what my other sites do, believe that or not. I bought PL because I was here from day 1, and I love the place and could not bear to see it going the way it was, you will only know this for sure by hearing from my own mouth, which I have given everyone the opportunity to do.

Yes you loved it so much that you bought it after you had set up your own web site and failed and had to purchase an already working one.
And what has the PL become ? Threads locked. Threads deleted. People banned, aye quality place.

A lot of lies have been spread about whilst I have been on holiday, it's down to yourself what you make of them, but ask yourself who has the most to gain from those lies being believed.

You're asking the wrong question. Ask yourself who has the most to lose ?
Is the PL making me any cash ? Nope. If I were to never read the PL again would I have lost something ? Well yes in a sense....I would lose alot of laughs I've had and miss reading posts from people I liked.
All my posting effort would also appear to be in vain.
Say the PL disappeared tomorrow....who do you think would lose out the most ?

Would it be the members..........or Paul Ross. If PL disppeared would you be thousands of pounds per month worse off ? I wouldn't be, would you ?
Can you guess someone that might be ?

Punters Lounge is the only betting forum to be at in my opinion, and I promised it would be much better after 1 year of me being in charge. 1 year on the task was achieved, with the help of the superb moderators.

Could you define better for us ? Does better mean more members ? Better tipsters ? More laughs ? More bannings ? More threads locked ? More threads deleted ? More PMs read ?
Oh by the way you might wanna delete abotu 90% of general chat classics...most of it is from people now banned. Funny that.

Punters Lounge will continue to be the only place to be, and these recent accusations, lies and childish behaviour of the breakaway few, will only motivate me even more in making PL untouchable as the UK's biggest, and best betting forum.

No lies. You are the one guilty of libel and invasion of privacy I may remind you Mr Ross. Childish behaviour ? People wanted to get their points across but you deleted their threads and banned them. That annoys people....or didn't you realise ?

Have a look at PL. Along top line there are a few affiliate bookie adverts.
Have a look along the bottom line, more affiliate adverts.
Have a look in some forums.
Have a look at Paul Ross signature.
The past few years Paul Ross ran a subscription based tipster web site...he didn't post any tips at all in the PL for years. It's supposed to be a betting forum as he is so keen to constantly remind us.

Noone else in the PL is allowed an affiliate link anywhere.
Noone else is allowed to mention a competitor site anywhere.
Noone else is allowed to mention a competitor tipster site anywhere. This was the case when paul ran his tipster site and still is.


During the years paul ross ran tipster site and posted no tips at all he still expected everyone to keep posting tips and putting in the effort whilst he sold his own tips for cash, but contributed none to the PL himself.

Now does good of PL and good of Paul Ross bank balance seem a little more interchangable ?


Now noone is gonna be banned or deleted from this thread. This will be a key difference. Noone will try to be silenced. Feel free to have your say.

Why I am still going on about this ?

Libel - Paul Ross has circulated an e mail saying myself or some of my colleagues have been stealing e mail addresses. This is blatent lies and is another offence he could be charged with.
I haven't knowingly said anything untrue about PL or Paul Ross.
Notice how he only ever tries to explain away things he's accused of and justify them....or ignore them altogether. They are never denied are they ? Wonder why.


Also I am assuming he can't ban me for what I post in another forum.
I'm not breaking any rules in PL by posting in here am I ?
Or am I ?

[MickeyPaul]

I am absolutely fucking raging. RAGING. Stealing email addresses while trusted as mods?? WHAT!!!???? No way am I letting that go. Slick made a piss taking comment about having addys, meaning on MSN (Rossy, you paranoid, madman). Somehow it's turned into Komp and his colleagues stealing email addresses while mods!!!!!!

I'm fucking gonaduhgiwougheuifgefbigfgbwuegffugbe :mad:

[aliensyndm]

I thougt I could train mickey paul as well as Yoda. But now he is full of hate and anger. I feel he may turn to the dark side of the force.

[OddsAgainst]

Quote:

"Anyone could have contacted the previous owner and done what I did well before I acted, but where were they ?"

Actually I did formally express an interest in buying the place. However I received no reply to that, the next email I got was to tell me...., well you can work it out, can't you?

[MickeyPaul]

But, but, but, that's out of order man. He can't do that! :

[MickeyPaul]

Nice to see you again Odds. Paul wasn't too happy when I said I'd like to see you back at PL a wee while back. lol

Yes, I'm starting to see a whole new side to Mr Ross..........

[Doc]

Sorry, but I can't resist adding my 2p worth.

I agree 99.9% with what Alien says (I'm reserving 0.1% as matter of prudence for later wriggle room :D ).

I'd like to stress that reading private messages is illegal - simple as that. For those who want to read more about how and why:
--------------------
"Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000 (RIPA),
which prohibits interception and recording of
communications (including e-mail) without consent,
except as authorised for national security and law
enforcement purposes, or essential business purposes."

"The terms on which businesses may intercept and
record communications without consent are set out
under the Telecommunications (Lawful Business
Practice)(Interception of Communications) Regulations
2000 (“the Lawful Business Practice Regulations”),
secondary legislation under RIPA. Further
information, and the text of these Regulations, is
available from the following website:

http://www.dti.gov.uk/cii/regulatory/telecomms/telecommsregulations/lawful_business_practice_regulations.shtml"
------------------

I do not for one minute believe there was a spam problem via PM's at Punters Lounge. Firstly, to my mind at least, spam involves an unsolicited message sent to many people aimed at selling something or otherwise extorting money from unsuspecting people. I've been a member (under various usernames) at Punters Lounge for over 4 years - during which time I never received a pm which could in any way be classed as spam. Neither has any PL member I know, or for that matter any member of ANY forum I know.
Even if Paul Ross wants to play semantics and claim that a message sent to an individual user can constitute spam, I still know no-one who has experienced this, i.e. been personally 'spammed'. I'd challenge Paul Ross to produce one person who has. For the the general good of the internet, maybe he could identify who these spammers were so that they can be put on some of the anti-spam databases.

So ask yourselves, why have pm's been read? My suggestion would be that it is a degree of paranoia on the part of Paul Ross that someone might be saying something about him, or communicating something that he doesn't agree with. I have strong reasons to believe pm's I sent were intercepted in this regard, leading to me be banned (on one of several occasions )

It also should be noted, and I'm sure the admins of this forum will confirm this (seeing as the same software is in use) - that it is not a completely trivial matter to monitor pm's. It's not rocket science for someone who knows anything about databases, but it does involve a degree of 'hacking' rather than simply ticking a box which says forward me all pm's of users with less than 10 posts.

it was me who paid a 4 figure sum for Punters Lounge when it was dying from strangulation.
I hardly think it was dying from strangulation. Some (and I can think of one or two, but I doubt it was many) may have felt it was disimproving, or disagreed with certain things, but it was hardly a widespread issue. There are however further points which need to be considered before making any more comment.
1) Ollie, the original owner, was overseas in his 'day job' in the army, and had asked OddsAgainst to look after the forum in his absence. This was a completely voluntary undertaking by Odds, for which he received no renumeration.
2) Odds was left with no access to community funds, meaning that at one stage when the ezboard (the forum hosts of the time) subscription ran out, and with Ollie incommunicado, Odds had to generate the funds himself to keep the board alive.
3) Odds had no authority to make any strategic decisions or make major adjustments to the the site - it was never 'his'. There have only ever been two owners. Paul Ross and Ollie.
4) During the time Odds was in charge (I believe it was a year or so, but I can't remember exactly), a grand total of 2 people were banned, one of which was later lifted on a promise of good behaviour. The single remaining banned person was Wilmore. The reason was that he went around every thread that odds posted in throwing insults around. Odds 'crime' in Wilmores eyes was to question a claim of Wilmore to have staked a large sum on Betfair, when the 'total matched' window at Betfair showed less than this claimed amount. Before the ban was implemented it was discussed in the mods forum, and my recollection is that there was unanimous support. I should state here that in the interests of absolute consistency that there were other bannings during this time - they were for genuine spammers (who strangely enough found it easier to use a post to promote their services rather than a private message). The standard practice here was to move the post to the mods forum, warn the poster and then ban if there was a repeat infraction.
5) Within the parameters of what could be done (with the owner being away), decisions at the time were made by consensus in the mods forum. Some of you here will have been mods at the time and know that to be the case. Naturally there were differences of opinion at time, but I'd challenge anyone to claim that Odds was anything other than fair, honest, open-minded and free of any self-interest with regard to the forum.
6) Paul Ross might want to explain why, given the 'strangulation' at the hands of the 'owner' (i.e. Odds) and his 'heavy-handed' moderators, why Odds was asked by Paul to stay as an adminstrator and why many (all?) mods, including myself, were contacted several times asking us to continue to moderate the forum.

My principal issue at the time of the takeover was not with Paul Ross, it was with Ollie for selling the forum without at least giving Odds an option to bid for it. At least this was my understanding at the time. From what you (Alien)say above, I may not be correct in this? Was the site taken over without Ollies knowledge in some respect?
Where I did have an issue with Paul Ross (at that stage) was that I felt there was a conflict of interest between someone purchasing (presumably for a sizeable sum) a forum and having to make it pay a business, and the good of the forum. This wasn't therefore a personal issue, but one of principle. Subsequent to that I have had some major issues, as I and others I consider friends have been defamed without the right to reply. Almost exclusively those affected have borne it stoically - partly from a lack of recourse admittedly, but also because they weren't too bothered by who was exposed to these lies - those that mattered knew the truth, and by and large those that didn't know the truth didn't matter.

Punters Lounge is the only betting forum to be at in my opinion, and I promised it would be much better after 1 year of me being in charge. 1 year on the task was achieved, with the help of the superb moderators.
This can only ever be a matter of opinion. My opinion, and it isn't unique is that this wasn't the case. It changed certainly, it grew probably. There were many people who continued to post valuable tips and information, many who I considered (and continue to do so) mates. However each to their own tastes in this regard and I wouldn't naysay anyone who believed it did improve, other than to note that I hold a different view - I'd agree to differ. However, as of right now, I cannot envisiage any criteria under which Paul Ross can claim that Punters Lounge is better than when he bought it.

Anyhow, thats enough guff from me. Lead on Alien! :D

[aliensyndm]

The very fact I have to defend people on here, rather than PL is testament to their heavy handed tactics.
I am currently under the delusion that I cannot be banned from PL for something I post on another board. If this does happen then well....figure that out.
An email is sent out to the whole PL which accuses myself and a few others of theft.
All of these people (except me) are banned from PL and unable to defend themself. If I was to post any defence in PL it would be deleted and used as a reason to ban me, so I post it in here.
Other people banned from PL can also defend themself in here.
Here also is a place for the others to state their case openly, without fear of deletion.

[slick]

Nice to see some old faces again and some interesting points have allready been pulled from the circulam, I'll give my views on these l8r as im pretty pushed @ the mo.
And as we do have the same software as Pl im still trying to work out how as a mod i can enter the admin panel and view the emails.

[MickeyPaul]

[OddsAgainst]

I think you will find that you can be banned for what you post here. I think you'll find that you will be.

[Doc]

I suspect Odds may be right

Also, the email didn't go out to all PL members - I didn't get one. Maybe you have to have posted to get the message?

What? Discrimation against lurkers? Outrageous!

[MickeyPaul]

I had a wee sneaky new account that didn't get an email. Funnily enough, Moanalots received one! I would never have guessed who that was either.

[Doc]

Slick

I'm pretty sure that this is not available by default - you either have to install a hack to do it, or else manually trawl through/interrogate the database where the information is stored. Not that you'd be doing it of course

I'm just pointing out that what PR did wasn't a simple admin facility - it was snooping.

[raven]

i got the email but it took a wee while to find 'cos hotmail had it filed under "this is junk."

....and they weren't shitting me. :cool: