"Born Again Barry" slags gambling

[christianu]

Yeah but its a cunty existence though.

[raisin man]

Well Chris,
looks like your rapidly going from a discussion into insulting people's beliefs,

Gills they can answer anything you say with "god works in mysterious ways" but in reality he is just a cunt.

, so I reckon I'll just read and try to reply to what other people are saying.

But just one quick point first Chris, you said
[QUOTE]Never mind the fact you cant see, smell or hear from him ever./QUOTE]
What makes you think you can't? I believe the Bible is God's word. I believe he can speak to people through dreams and in real life (the burning bush, Damascus Road,...). and through prayer. I have often had ideas, feelings, thoughts come into my head when I was praying that were certainly not there before.


So Mr M,
I'll just tell you how and why I started to believe in God. I went to a Catholic school til I was 12. But I didn't believe in God at all. I thought it was too far fetched. Then when I was 16 someone I knew in school became a Christian and started trying to tell everyone about it. I just took the piss for a year or so, but because I was trying to find stuff to undermine his faith with I realised how far fetched some of the science I was taught was cause I was looking up stuff to say to him, "what about ..., that clearly means God doesn't exist" (he was in my biology and physics classes). I couldn't work out how the world had come to be, how we had come to exist, how amazingly complex and beautiful the world was. How it all worked so well together (e.g. just 1% closer to the Sun, we'd all die). So I figured there must be a God. It never occured to me to consider which God, I just assumed the Christian one. So I decided to give praying a go and read the Bible. Eventually I got over my pride and told people I believed in God.

But by the time I started thinking about people believeing in different Gods I had experienced enough of the Christian God that I had no doubt it was the right one. I'd seen answers to prayer. People healed. People speaking in tongues. People prophesying and the stuff actually happening.

So I guess if your looking to find out if God exists or not I would advise you to read the Bible and see what you think after that, see if it explains whats going on in the world around us, one of the gospels is a good place to start. And try giving prayer a go, something like, "God, if you exist then make it clear to me", no harm in trying that.

[christianu]

Well Chris,
looks like your rapidly going from a discussion into insulting people's beliefs

Everyone insults everyone for everything though. If you didnt then you wouldnt have the same South park, Simpsons, family guy etc..

"God, if you exist then make it clear to me",

Yeah but if you do that then its all in your mind, you make things happen then say oh that was a sign when it really wasnt, you dictate it to what you want.

Darren Brown illustrated this fantasticly in one program he did, he convinced a whole room of people who were dead cert Atheists into all believing in God, all through tricks of the mind. It was class. And it was a fantastic point.

If I went into prayer asking for God id get nothing, if you did it you'd get something as your expecting/anticiapting/hoping where as I am doubtful/pessimistic/ etc.. and id get nothing, if something happened like a fly flew into my face some would say oh there it is, theres gods sign, where as I would just try and kill the fly for getting in the way.

Eventually I got over my pride and told people I believed in God.

Thats the thing though, its like gay people who are overly gay and are all in your face with oh look how gay and proud I am and its annoying. Same with some religious folk, who are like oh I am one with god and I want to shout as loud as I can. So techincally your just gay and (edit- dont be mard about that im just messing about)

Its not about pride Raisin and you give off the distinct impression people dont want to believe in god most of the time because its not cool, people dont want to go church cos there embarrassed, you do give off that assumption. Its not the case, people just are not interested.

[raisin man]

Originally Posted by christianu

Everyone insults everyone for everything though. If you didnt then you wouldnt have the same South park, Simpsons, family guy etc...

But you were the one who specificly had a go at alien for not discussing properly.

Darren Brown illustrated this fantasticly in one program he did, he convinced a whole room of people who were dead cert Atheists into all believing in God, all through tricks of the mind. It was class. And it was a fantastic point.

Never saw it, I'd quite like to though.

If I went into prayer asking for God id get nothing, if you did it you'd get something as your expecting/anticiapting/hoping where as I am doubtful/pessimistic/ etc.. and id get nothing

Thats kinda what I was trying to say. Its hard to go into anything completely open mindedly and we interpret what we see based on what we believe. So you could see the same things as me and come to different conclusions. I don't really know how to get round this problem. Maybe we should just agree to disaggree.

Thats the thing though, its like gay people who are overly gay and are all in your face with oh look how gay and proud I am and its annoying. Same with some religious folk, who are like oh I am one with god and I want to shout as loud as I can. So techincally your just gay and (edit- dont be mad about that im just messing about).

I was never in anyones face about it. I'm just having a discussion. And it is a thread about religion after all. Before this thread I think I hardly mentioned it at all. So I hardly think I can be accused of being in everyone's face about it. You are just as much in everyones face about not believeing in God. You can't pick and choose.

Its not about pride Raisin and you give off the distinct impression people dont want to believe in god most of the time because its not cool, people dont want to go church cos there embarrassed, you do give off that assumption. Its not the case, people just are not interested.

Maybe I do, I didn't mean to, it was just one of the posible explanations that crossed my mind. There are many more. And one of them is that God doesn't exist. Its certainly a possibility. I won't deny that I might be wrong, but I might be right too.

[christianu]

I was never in anyones face about it. I'm just having a discussion. And it is a thread about religion after all. Before this thread I think I hardly mentioned it at all. So I hardly think I can be accused of being in everyone's face about it. You are just as much in everyones face about not believeing in God. You can't pick and choose.

i wasnt aiming that at you by the way, well i suppose I was but i appreciate its a thread on religion so obv your gonna say what you believe, I was just talking about what gets me so annoyed, its like have you seen that program on evangelical christians, grrrr!!

But you were the one who specificly had a go at alien for not discussing properly

No I had a go at him for ignoring me and i said even though i do go on a bit, and get aggressive/annoying whatever that I do make points that he never enters disccusion with me about. I think you appreciate ive said things that you dont really have an answer for and I cant blame you for getting a bit annoyed with me for my tone etc.. Sometimes i read back and think oh shit.

Never saw it, I'd quite like to though

Really good program, he doesnt do just religion he does psychics etc.. and shows how its all just mind tricks they do, he isnt saying religion is mind tricks, its the interpretaion thing.

[christianu]

Before this thread I think I hardly mentioned it at all

You were going on about church in the poker area and it did seem to me, im being honest that it was one of those i go to church and i dont care type things, i mean i am going somewhere and cant make a tournament, probably say oh cant make it etc.. but it seemed to me cos it was church you were like yeahhhh.

Sorry if that wasnt the case, just came accross that way.

[christianu]

Oh and this was a good point:

Y

ou are just as much in everyones face about not believeing in God.

[raisin man]

Originally Posted by christianu

You were going on about church in the poker area and it did seem to me, im being honest that it was one of those i go to church and i dont care type things, i mean i am going somewhere and cant make a tournament, probably say oh cant make it etc.. but it seemed to me cos it was church you were like yeahhhh.

Sorry if that wasnt the case, just came accross that way.

I didn't mean that to be the case, didn't think much of it when I said it. A lot of people have mentioned why they can't make games when they have to miss them. Anyway didn't mean to be in anyones face, but I'm not going to go out of my way either to not mention anything churchy or religious. A lot of people talk about what they do in their everyday lives in here.

[christianu]

Yeah, I couldnt help feeling what I said though, again probably just my interpretaion blah blah etc..

[raisin man]

This thread seems to be winding down a bit now. I guess its a case of respecting what other people believe and that people interpret things in different ways.

That seems to be the general answer to any question from either side of the debate. Don't think there is anyway to get around that.

Off to bed now, I'll check the thread again in the morning and see whats going on.

[christianu]

Probably just me going on with myself

[all_funkt_up]

Originally Posted by raisin man

I couldn't work out how the world had come to be, how we had come to exist, how amazingly complex and beautiful the world was. How it all worked so well together (e.g. just 1% closer to the Sun, we'd all die). So I figured there must be a God. It never occured to me to consider which God, I just assumed the Christian one.

Far be it from me to slag off anyone's beliefs, whether they're right or wrong but I must take exception with this one.

Perry Mason would have a field day with this, I mean the case for the defence is hardly watertight is it? I couldnt fathom one of the world's great mysteries so I assumed there must be a god.

My explanation would be down to law of averages. I mean if there is an infinitely big Universe out there and an infinite number of planets, surely the conditions must be right with one in a million planets for example. So although it seems awe inspiring and confusing, its really very simple.

That's my take on it.

I am not a believer in God, but if there was one (which there isnt) then he would be an old perv and thats why he makes fat women. He likes to look up fat women's skirts and watch people have sex from his throne in the sky. Although he doesnt exist so all that's bollocks.

[mrmuzeman]

This thread seems to be winding down a bit now. I guess its a case of respecting what other people believe and that people interpret things in different ways.

Dont worry Raisin therell be another thread along next month

[ThePope]

Hmmm... seeing as I'm in direct contact with the 'big fella' I better add my opinion.
Actually I'm not religious, and I'd like to go back to a point made a few pages back. How did God come to be? The notion of a self-creating being is entirely illogical and impossible (think about it). If God did not create himself then he must have either existed forever (this too seems impossible) or been created by something/someone else (this thing would also face the aforementioned creation problems). It doesn't seem that this can possibly be overcome and for me this is were the God debate stops.
Religion is a way for people to try and make sense of stuff they can't understand. Why is Christianity a more valid way of doing this than Greek or Norse mythology. Why, Alien and Raisin, have you chosen to follow the Christian faith over any other?

[raisin man]

Originally Posted by ThePope

If God did not create himself then he must have either existed forever (this too seems impossible) or been created by something/someone else (this thing would also face the aforementioned creation problems). It doesn't seem that this can possibly be overcome and for me this is were the God debate stops.

Its the same with the universe. Where did it come from? Has it always been there? What was before the big bang?