The problematic euro debate on internet gambling

[dimitrios]

Since March 23, the European commission have started a European debate for the future of internet gambling.
The address of the public debate is

http://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/consultations/2011/online_gambling_en.htm

and the deadline is the 31^st of July 2011.

It is important because the conclusions are expected to form the basis of legislation in the member states in the future.

The progress of the debate is not however without problems and those problems should become known.

First problem is that the questionnaire was too much in favour of the «monopoly companies», the way it was structured. Essentially there was nothing for the consumer !

We had to make use of the box «any other observations» to write something !

However in a later visit to the consultation’s webpage we noticed that this was

somewhat changed and it was not as one sided as it was in the beginning.

The other problem concerns the publication of the depositions made by the members of the public.

While the consultation page says «let’s discuss» and further down «the depositions made by members of the public will be published», none has been

published so far (from 23 March till now !).

An unofficial source gave a probable explanation of this mystery, saying that the depositions shall be published after the end of the debate and not during it.

This however has n’t been verified by ffice:smarttags" border="0" alt="" class="tcattdimgresizer" onload="NcodeImageResizer.createOn(this);" />Brussels (or when publicizing will start).
If, in the event, this is true, it is a kind of consulatation in camera, behind closed doors that is. We asked a prominent lawyer about this and he made the following comment:


“If a judge decrees the proceedings of a trial to be held in camera, he may
have some quite valid reasons for doing it.
But whatever the case may be, this always tends to favour somewhat the less popular side of the trial. In the eyes of the public opinion the less popular side is usually that of the accused, but there are exceptions, depending on the exact nature of the case.”

While further explanations from Brussels are being awaited, we publish the content of our own deposition (made by the Greek horse racing portal cosmicway.net). You can read this here:

http://www.cosmicway.net/online_gambling_questionnaire_en.pdf

About other depositions, if and when they appear in the European commission’s website (see previous link).

It is obvious that Brussels are being pressurized by the monopolies to hold a «monkey debate» and subsequently declare a «monkey conclusion».
At the same time it is certain that there are reactions to it and from what we gather there is at this point in time a mini-consultation inside the consultation concerning what to do next !


There is no need to add that your participation is essential, if you are on the same side of tha barricades as we.

At the same time as the consultation in Brussels is taking place, the Greek portal cosmicway.net has started an effort using pagebook, targetting the Greek community. The facebook page is called «fairbet» and is located here:

http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Fairbet/151420181596523

It’ too fresh and still in formation stage.
In this page you can submit comments and you could also give us likes, so we can show strength of numbers.
We consider the right2bet organization (http://www.right2bet.com) as the umbrella organization of European consumers, but we also encourage the people of the various European nations to start their own local efforts, in the local language.
The facebook project is a daring effort, but things are on the move and we could n’t wait more. We always supported that such an effort is the job of the big names in the industry, so it reaches high view numbers quickly. This did not happen so we started it ourselves. Any help is of course welcome.

This content is being posted to Greek and English language sports-betting related forums, of whom we are kindly requesting to allow its publication.
The forums we publish are to be displayed in our forum:

http://cosmic.forumup.org/viewtopic.php?t=291&mforum=cosmic

[Winrew]

Surprised you have money to gamble , Greece is on its knees with debt..

[slick]

I wondered when the links would be posted.

Strange one as its not exactly spam related but supporting a subject dear to our hearts.

If anybody objects to this post then plse let me know.

[dimitrios]

Originally Posted by slick

I wondered when the links would be posted.

Strange one as its not exactly spam related but supporting a subject dear to our hearts.

If anybody objects to this post then plse let me know.

I tried to gather peoples attention many times.
First efforts if I remember well in 2002, the days of the Japan world cup.
Many were telling me "there is no problem" but I knew there was going to be a problem.
As things stand, with lack of coordination all over the place, I make the effort myself as already explained. That implies saying who I am. Can't be helped, even though for the purpose of this campaign a 100% business-wise neutral group is better.
So I hope the spirit of tolerence will prevail.

I support right2bet.com but there are two problems:
The first problem is they don't publish very frequently.
The second problem is that the effort to stop the tide of prohibitionism has to be split among the member countries of the EU, with local people involved. Although right2bet.com are fine, it is not really possible for the Greeks-Portuguese-Bulgarians a.s.o. to be led from UK (and the opposite is also true).
These may look like fine points but they are important.

The facebook group already gathered many friends and likes.

Another common misconception among younger people is they think if their own favourite sports forum covers the subject well then why go elsewhere ?
In the real world this does n't hold true because an official group is needed. Somebody has to exist somewhere in the role of the official.
You already saw how EU is treating the "debate". Therefore ?
It's June 20. On June 23 it's going to be 15 days after I queried the issue with them.
According to their rules, after 15 days the issue is elevated to the status of a dispute.
I do sincerely hope it won't and if I have any news from them, I will most certainly post the clarification received.

[dimitrios]

We waited for the European Commission to start their famous "debate" or to explain the debate system they intend to follow. Having received no reply from them, we made a formal complaint and we also communicated it to the "European Ombudsman".
Below is the text of the complaint:

28/06/2011
My complaint concerns the public debate on the Green Paper for internet gambling matters, described in the following page:

http://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/...ambling_en.htm

The Green paper was launched on March the 23d and members of the public are invited to submit their contributions, using a specially made queestionnaire downloadable from the webpage.
The debate ends on the 31st of July 2011.
On June the 8th I submitted my contribution, using the questionnaire.
I do not however see it published, neither do I see any other contributions submitted by members of the public. From an unofficial source I heard that all those contributions will be published after the end of the debate i.e. after 31/07.
I therefore queried the issue, using the email address provided in the webpage, asking when the contributions will be published or if any other system is being used. I also asked for permission to publish my contribution elsehwere in the web.
After 20 days I received no reply whatsoever but also nothing appeared in the page itself and so I have to report the incident and file this complaint.
It is a "debate without debate" and as things stand the declarations made by the commission are false.
If one launches a public debate or if one participates in such a debate, he should be prepared to see arguments both supporting and un-supporting his views.
I 'm asking for clarifications about this, concerning when the publications will start or if there is any other system in operation. Such clarifications should also be published in the webpage. In the event of it proving impossible, the Green Paper itself is in my opinion annulled and it is also unlawful to be made use of in the future.

[slick]

Welcome to our world Dimitrios, i don't know what things were like in Greece before you joined the European union but over here once the powers that be get their mind set on something it's very rarely turned back, its called democracy, some politician will make his mind up were doing 'that' and 'that' is what we will do no matter what the majority think.

You can play up fcuk all you want but unless you have the media behind you it won't make a difference.

Good luck anyhow as I like your determination.

[dimitrios]

Originally Posted by slick

Welcome to our world Dimitrios, i don't know what things were like in Greece before you joined the European union but over here once the powers that be get their mind set on something it's very rarely turned back, its called democracy, some politician will make his mind up were doing 'that' and 'that' is what we will do no matter what the majority think.

You can play up fcuk all you want but unless you have the media behind you it won't make a difference.

Good luck anyhow as I like your determination.

Thanks for the comment.
I know about all this and the media power and the politicians games.
Before we joined the EU there was no internet. Only football pools. After having studied the football pools for a long time I went to the authorities and asked them to modify the rules a little and make them like Italy. Italy was the other European country where the pools were very popular and the rules were somewhat more fair to the punter. But my suggestions were -as you may have expected- turned down.
It has always been like that and I 'm only trying to put the record straight on certain matters.
The thing is the market responds negatively to over-taxation so there is a hope, despite the extreme reaction.
Two things those folks in the high places used to say were:

"they don't understand so we can do as we please and slash prices"

and

"they have money falling from the ceiling"

They proved right in the sense that nobody really protests (so I was proved wrong and some of the journalists who were expecting the people to protest vigorously were also proved wrong).
But the system failed where it counts, namely in the marketing sense, because the market dries up, too quickly as well !

[dimitrios]

See our new contribution to the euro-debate here:

http://www.cosmicway.net/Public_Consultation-online_gambling​.pdf

For some unknown reason the contributions made by the members of the public / lobbyists are not being published in the debate webpage (http://ec.europa.eu/internal_m​arket/consultations/2011/onlin​e_gambling_en.htm)

We enquired this and we received a reply from mr. Robert Mullac, saying that the commission is paying attention to our submission, on behalf of the consumers. Also that the submissions "will be publicised", but no explanation again about when or if they plan to publicize after the deadline (the 31^st of July).
We have therefore repeated the question, explaining that if their system is to publish after the 31/7, theey should state it. Even if we do not approve of such a system, it is a valid method, so long as they do announce it.
You will be notified, re. any further response.

(* support the Greek facebook community for “justice in betting”, http://www,facebook.com/fairbet)

[dimitrios]

Mr. Kleinwegger of the European Commission in ffice:smarttags" />Brussels informed us (at last) that the submissions to the euro-consultation are to be published after the 31^st of July (after the deadline that is and not during the course of the debate).