Betfair

[Samuel]

OK, tonight I have had two predicaments on Betfair. I've been messing around on trading X-poker and done pretty damn well, getting to the point where my initial stakes were £100 odd. So, tonight, I had two seperate games where I placed my money (£100 and £150) with the view to laying it off etc, only for the game to go offline and a server error come up. I'm not the only one to receive this message according to their forums. Now then, I phoned them up and explained what happened but they basically said tough shit, Is this right? Not happy about this and it may result in me withdrawing all my money on Betfair and not using them based on morals.

Opinions?

[Grga]

I think that this is not the first time that someone complains about Betfair. I don't think that you can do much Samuel.

[Wittmann 44]

Now then, I phoned them up and explained what happened but they basically said tough shit,

Sorry about that Samuel but thet are pretty much correct. It has happened me before. I love Betfair but they're so big that customer care is not what it should be. Their attitude seems to be that they can afford to piss you off as there are not really many alternatives realistically when it comes to exchanges. I've started using WBX but the liquidity is still very small and for the time being Betfair is stillthe big daddy. The sector needs some real competition and they might pull up their socks a bit.

[Samuel]

Unfortunately it looks like it's tough shit. Just sent them a long winded e-mail and depending on their response I will either stay with them, or move to WBX (or back to Betdaq which was OK).

[Samuel]

Reply from Betfair:
Dear Sam,

Thank you for your e-mail.

Further to your query, kindly note that I have forwarded your query
to the relevant Department for their further attention and we will
get back to you as soon as I have a response.

Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any further
enquiries.

Kind regards,

Daniela Spiteri

Betfair helpdesk

Games Helpdesk Tel: 0870 9080 120
Games Helpdesk Fax: 0208 834 8056

[Kiko]

Originally Posted by Samuel

Unfortunately it looks like it's tough shit. Just sent them a long winded e-mail and depending on their response I will either stay with them, or move to WBX (or back to Betdaq which was OK).

Yeah seems to be the way. Completely agree with RC that while there is no other real threats or competitors to Betfair they are going to be cnuts like this for a while yet.

Speaking of betfair the shit is hitting the fan on their forums just now due to some increase in commission or something??

I havent followed it properly but MANY are very angry and saying they are moving elsewhere.

[Samuel]

Certainly seem to be losing people now that's for sure. Still to hear from the other people.

How does Mansion measure up?

[ONEDUNME]

Yep, the change in rates is a rip off alright and it will definitely mean less business from me, for one. That's not the idle threat that everybody is trotting out at the moment but it's based on financial common sense.

Currently, if betfair offer a price that's the same as another bookie (bearing in mind I have accounts with twenty odd bookies and can afford to shop around) then I will take the betair bet because it keeps my commision points up. In future, the band rates of a couple of % are not going to make the slightest bit of difference so my should I bother betting with them.

Fuck em, I'll defintely sign up with WBX and start using my betdaq account again. Betdaq's liquidity should improve if the threatened action by the betfair disillusioned comes off.

Current Discount Rate Table
(until 28th May 2007)
Betfair Points
Discount Rate
From
To

0
999
0%
1,000
3,999
5%
4,000
6,999
10%
7,000
9,999
15%
10,000
13,999
20%
14,000
18,999
25%
19,000
24,999
30%

New Discount Rate Table
(from 29th May 2007)
Betfair Points
Discount Rate
From
To

0
999
0.00%
1,000
2,499
2.00%
2,500
3,999
4.00%
4,000
5,499
6.00%
5,500
6,999
8.00%
7,000
8,999
10.00%
9,000
10,999
12.00%

[ONEDUNME]

Can't read that table of discount rates very well. Sorry.

[Wittmann 44]

Just read the latest email from Betfair. You beat me to it ONEDUNME


I’ve bet with Betfair for over 5 years. I’ve bet with them to the exclusion of almost all other bookmakers. 90% of my betting has gone through them. I have earned 5 figures in commission for them. As my betting has grown the commission I have paid to them has steadily fallen as they have rewarded the greater value of betting with a reduced commission. Every 10p in commission gets 1 Betfair Point. Your points build cumulatively with the end of week balance reduced every week by 15%. Earn so many points and your commission rate

The current deduction scheme is set to change on 29th May. It is needless to say not changing for the better.

Previously to get a 5% deduction in your commission (i.e pay 4.75%) you needed to have a balance between 1,000 and 3,999 points.

This has no changed to a 4% deduction (between 2,500 and 3,999 points). In other words to get a lower deduction than you would previously you will have to bet 2 and a half times as much.

It is even more obvious at higher rates. To get the 10% deduction you had previously to earn between 4,000 and 6,999 points. That has now gone to between 7,000 and 8,999 points.

The extra commission is coming straight off your bottom line and into Betfair’s pockets. Believe me it adds up.

Betfair have regrettably become a monopoly. They’re acting like all other monopolies and screwing their customers. Betfair made £22.5 Million in 2005. It is conservatively valued at around £1.5 Billion. No doubt this is an effort to boost revenue further in advance of a takeover.

If you are a Betfair Customer this will affect you negatively unless you bet at the very smallest levels. I suggest registering your displeasure by emailing customer service. It won’t achieve anything but it will make you feel better.

I also suggest that you investigate alternative exchanges like WBX and maybe give some other bookmakers a second chance. If I'm going to get buttfucked I'm not going to make it easy for them.

[Samuel]

Dear Sam,

Thank you for your e-mail.

We have investigated your query, and can confirm that Betfair
suffered Exchange Games Slowdown on the evening of Tuesday 22/5/07.
Unfortunately, we cannot offer you a refund of the £100 stake in
question in accordance with our Terms and Conditions as outlined
below:

'IN NO EVENT WILL THE SERVICE PROVIDERS, THEIR LICENSEES,
DISTRIBUTORS, PARENTS, SUBSIDIARIES, AFFILIATES AND ALL OF THEIR
OFFICERS, DIRECTORS AND EMPLOYEES, NOR ANYONE ELSE INVOLVED IN
CREATING, PRODUCING OR DELIVERING ANY GAMES OFFERED BY BETFAIR
EXCHANGE GAMING (INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION BETFAIR EXCHANGE POKER,
BETFAIR EXCHANGE BLACKJACK, AND BETFAIR EXCHANGE BACCARAT AND BETFAIR
EXCHANGE HI LO), OR THE SOFTWARE, BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES OR LOSSES
WHATSOEVER, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, SPECIAL, INDIRECT,
CONSEQUENTIAL, INCIDENTAL OR PUNITIVE DAMAGES, ARISING OUT OF OR IN
CONNECTION WITH THIS AGREEMENT OR THE USE OR PERFORMANCE OF ANY GAMES
OFFERED BY BETFAIR EXCHANGE GAMING (INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO
BETFAIR EXCHANGE POKER, BETFAIR EXCHANGE BLACKJACK, AND BETFAIR
EXCHANGE BACCARAT AND BETFAIR EXCHANGE HI LO) OR THE SOFTWARE. THIS
DISCLAIMER AND LIMITATION APPLIES REGARDLESS OF THE CAUSE OR NATURE
OF THE LOSSES OR DAMAGES INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, LOST REVENUE
OR PROFITS (WHETHER DIRECT OR INDIRECT), INTERRUPTIONS, LOSS OF DATA,
INACCURATE RESULTS, OR DELAYS, HOWEVER ARISING AND REGARDLESS OF THE
THEORY OF LIABILITY, EVEN IF THE SERVICE PROVIDERS RECEIVED PRIOR
NOTICE OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. BY ACCEPTING THIS
AGREEMENT, YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THE NOMINAL FEE, IF ANY, REFLECTS
THIS ALLOCATION OF RISK'

Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any further
enquiries.

Kind regards,

Daniela Spiteri

Betfair helpdesk

Games Helpdesk Tel: 0870 9080 120
Games Helpdesk Fax: 0208 834 8056

I have now withdrawn all but £100 of my funds (a 4 digit sum not too far from 5) and will use that £100 for R2R only. As soon as that hits my account, I'll be back with BETDAQ.

[Wittmann 44]

Good luck with Betdaq Sam but I personally don't rate them (for sports betting anyway). Liquidity is rubbish and the commission is the same as Betfair. Ugly site as well with a poor interface.

[Samuel]

What would people suggest is the best out of the rest then?

[Wittmann 44]

Received a reply to my snotty email regarding the change in the commission structure from the improbably named Melanie Rainbird (yeah right ).

Basically the gist is we gave all these extra services and so we're going to have to charge you.

I asked for none of these additional service and the only one I'm likely to use (the TV streaming) won't work with Mozilla.

So I basically have the same service has before with worse terms.

As Johnny Lydon once said "ever had the feeling you've been had"



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Dear XXXX

Thank you for your e-mail.

The decision to alter the points structure was not taken lightly and
was only done after a lengthy internal review. Although we understand
your concerns we do feel that we still offer value for money for a
number of reasons:

- Betfair racing: Timeform - horse racing data
- Massively increased capacity
- 1st with Jockey colours
- Stats on Sports
- Improved layout/design

We have also introduced a number of new products over the last few
months:

- Multiples
- Live Streaming Video
- Betfair Radio
- Betfair Mobile and Betfair Lite: free to download
- Increasing range of high quality 3rd party applications
using the API, including Historical Data

Finally, the prices available are still on average 20% better than
the bookmakers.

As we do value customer feedback I have detailed your feeling on this
matter and sent them to the relevant team and am sure that they will
take these on board.

Kind regards

Melanie Rainbird

Betfair Helpdesk

Helpdesk Tel: 0870 0110 444
Helpdesk Fax: 0870 0110 555
Eire Tel: 1 - 800 944 000
Australia Tel: 1- 800 644 738
Free Fax (Australia) 1 - 800 068 593
International: +44 20 8834 8060

[rene]

hey pals

I´m looking for the Betfair Odds on the normal market and have to wonder a bit.

example:

New York Mets - Florida Marlins

Back New York - 1.86
Lay Florida - 2.18

Isn´t it the same bet?

i back new york means they must win
i lay florida means that they must lose

Where´s the difference and why are the odds so different?

any suggestions?