English Prem 2/3/4th Jan

[zonker84]

Got to agree, Sunderland are rubbish. Fulham always tend to put in a good performance at home, and when you compare the odds to what you got for Tottenham v Sunderland for example, looks good to me.

[GETT1NLOTS]

Originally Posted by GETT1NLOTS

My first thoughts are on a home win for Fulham. I think that Sunderland losing to Everton at home virtually sealed their doom relegation wise (in their own minds) and the fact that they lost to a 90th minute goal after playing quite well will have knocked the stuffing out of them even more.

Contrast that to Fulham who lost away to Portsmouth after they had dominated the first 20 minutes and I think that they will go into the game against Sunderland absolutely determined to make sure of these three points and steer away from the drop zone.

In short I think Sunderland will be beaten by Fulham due to what happened to both sides on the 31st December and their contrasting mental approach to this game as a result.

4/7 on Fulham seems a decent price to me.

Of course I realise that this is all purely conjecture on my behalf but my gut tells me I wont be far wrong on this. Did you see the Sunderland players all lying down on the pitch after the game was up on Saturday against Everton. They looked like a bunch of players who know they are doomed and have had the stuffing and belief knocked out of them. I don't think their manager is good enough to get them right for the game against Fulham. Whereas Coleman will be playing on his players fear that they could get dragged in to the scrap for survival.

[Hippy Dave]

I think they already knew they were doomed, and were acting like that because they played Everton off the park and lost to a 90th minute goal.

Fulham are the new Newcastle/Man City in my eyes, they always do the unexpected. Sunderland did play well against Everton and probably deserved a win. Have a funny feeling that this won't be straightforward.

[GETT1NLOTS]

1.61 at Paddy Power seems to be the best odds from a reliable bookie that I can find if you feel like following me on the Fulham win.

You can get 1.68 from ThePool.com but I've never heard of them.

[mrmuzeman]

Yeah forget about THEPOOL there dodgy they are

[GETT1NLOTS]

Originally Posted by dave (without a capital d)

I think they already knew they were doomed, and were acting like that because they played Everton off the park and lost to a 90th minute goal.

I don't agree with that Dave. If Sunderland had won they would have been on 9 points and Everton would have remained on 17 points. Whilst the players would still have doubted they could survive they would also have told themselves that being 8 points away from the relegation zone was not an impossibility. As it happens they are now 13 points adrift from the vital 4th from bottom spot and I think that will make the world of difference to their motivation - especially when playing another side who are desperate for the points themselves. This could come down to heart and desire and I doubt if Sunderland have much of that left whilst Fulham should have it in spades. We'll see.

[prinze]

Latest new from the official sites
Birmingham (19) v Wigan (5)
Birmingham will be without Matthew Upson who joined the list of walking wounded at St Andrews with a twisted ankle. Olivier Tebily stands by to replace him. Jiri Jarosik will return after missing out against Chelsea because he remains on loan from the reigning champions.
Wigan left-back Leighton Baines could miss his first Premiership match of the season. Baines limped off midway through the second half of the 3-0 JJB Stadium defeat to Blackburn with a hamstring injury and is doubtful for the trip to St Andrews.
Last season: No Corresponding fixture
Last five league matches: Birmingham W L L D L; Wigan L W W W L
Top scorers: Jiri Jarosik (Birmingham) 5; Jason Roberts (Wigan) 9

Blackburn (9) v Portsmouth (18)
Blackburn midfielder Tugay is available after serving a one-match suspension. However, he may not go straight back into the starting line-up after an impressive performance from Steven Reid in for the 3-0 win at Wigan, scoring a stunning second goal. Captain and centre-back Andy Todd remains a doubt with a knee injury
Portsmouth boss Harry Redknapp has to decide whether to rest Uruguay striker Dario Silva. He must also decide if Dejan Stefanovic's ankle will stand up to further pressure as he waits for an operation to cure a bone-growth.
Last season: Portsmouth 0 Blackburn 1, Blackburn 1 Portsmouth 0
Last five league matches: Blackburn L W L W W; Portsmouth L W D L W
Top scorers: Craig Bellamy (Blackburn) 7; Gary O'Neil (Portsmouth) 4

Bolton (7) v Liverpool (3)
El-Hadji Diouf should return from suspension to give Bolton added firepower. The Senegal striker was badly missed at Manchester United and manager Sam Allardyce will expect a big performance from a player who is due to depart shortly for African Nations Cup duty.
Liverpool have a slight doubt over striker Djibril Cisse. The Frenchman limped out of the 1-0 win over West Brom with a muscle injury but boss Raphael Benitez expected the 10-goal man to be ready for the derby. Fernando Morientes and Boudewijn Zenden are both still out with knee injuries.
Last season: Liverpool 1 Bolton 0, Bolton 1 Liverpool 0
Last five league matches: Bolton W D W D L; Liverpool W W W W W
Top scorers: Kevin Nolan (Bolton) 7; Steven Gerrard (Liverpool) 14

Everton (16) v Charlton (12)
Mikel Arteta returns to the squad after serving a one-match ban. Arteta missed yesterday's 1-0 victory at Sunderland after being sent off during the derby defeat by Liverpool last Wednesday. Phil Neville, who was also red-carded in the Merseyside derby, is sidelined once again as it was his second dismissal of the season.
Charlton will have midfielder Danny Murphy back from suspension. Midfielder Alexei Smertin (knee) and winger Jerome Thomas (virus) are doubtful, while centre-half Gonzalo Sorondo faces a fitness test on his bruised foot. Winger Dennis Rommedahl could keep his place after impressing in the 2-0 win over West Ham on Saturday.
Last season: Everton 0 Charlton 1, Charlton 2 Everton 0
Last five league matches: Everton L L L L W; Charlton L W L L W
Top scorers: James Beattie (Everton) 5; Darren Bent (Charlton) 12

Fulham (15) v Sunderland (20)
Fulham hope to have Papa Bouba Diop back from injury. Manager Chris Coleman hopes the giant Senegal midfielder will face the Black Cats even though he may not be 100%. Sylvain Legwinski and Heidar Helguson are doubtful after picking up injuries in the New Year's Eve defeat at Portsmouth.
Sunderland midfielder Christian Bassila is likely to be missing after damaging a hamstring in training.
Last season: No Corresponding fixture
Last five league matches: Fulham L W L D L; Sunderland L L L D L
Top scorers: Brian McBride (Fulham) 9; Anthony Le Tallec (Sunderland) 3, Dean Whitehead (Sunderland) 3

Newcastle (11) v Middlesbrough (14)
Newcastle will be without Michael Owen after the England striker broke a bone in his foot during the defeat to Tottenham. Magpies goalkeeper Shay Given injured his thumb at White Hart Lane and is considered doubtful, with Steve Harper set to deputise. Midfielder Lee Bowyer is suspended, while Emre, Kieron Dyer and Craig Moore are all out with hamstring problems. Steven Taylor (shoulder) misses out, while Peter Ramage (calf and Achilles) is a doubt.
Middlesbrough manager Steve McClaren will monitor the fitness of striker Aiyegbeni Yakubu. The Nigerian international took a knock on the hip during the 0-0 draw against Manchester City at the Riverside Stadium.
Last season: Newcastle 0 Middlesbrough 0, Middlesbrough 2 Newcastle 2
Last five league matches: Newcastle D W W L L; Middlesbrough L L D L D
Top scorers: Michael Owen (Newcastle) 7, Alan Shearer (Newcastle) 7; Aiyegbeni Yakubu (Middlesbrough) 11

West Brom (17) v Aston Villa (13)
West Brom could have Junichi Inamoto fit after he missed the 1-0 defeat at Liverpool with a thigh injury. Inamoto's fellow midfielder Zoltan Gera is still suffering soreness following a hernia operation and will not be considered.
Villa picked up no new injuries in the goalless draw against Arsenal. Rookie Craig Gardner will again have to be on the bench. Striker Kevin Phillips and central defender and skipper Olof Mellberg are still ruled out with ankle and thigh injuries respectively.
Last season: Aston Villa 1 West Brom 1, West Brom 1 Aston Villa 1
Last five league matches: West Brom W L L W L; Aston Villa D L W D D
Top scorers: Nathan Ellington (West Brom) 6; Steven Davis (Aston Villa) 5, James Milner (Aston Villa) 5, Milan Baros (Aston Villa) 5

West Ham (10) v Chelsea (1)
West Ham could have defenders Danny Gabbidon and Tomas Repka back from injury. Striker Bobby Zamora (hamstring) is a doubt, while veteran Teddy Sheringham has not fully recovered from a calf injury.
Chelsea will be without suspended England midfielder Joe Cole. Damien Duff, left out of the squad for the win over Birmingham, will replace him with Didier Drogba given the striking role ahead of Hernan Crespo.
Last season: No Corresponding fixture
Last five league matches: West Ham W L D L L; Chelsea W W W W W
Top scorers: Marlon Harewood (West Ham) 8; Frank Lampard (Chelsea) 13

[Hippy Dave]

Originally Posted by GETT1NLOTS

I don't agree with that Dave. If Sunderland had won they would have been on 9 points and Everton would have remained on 17 points. Whilst the players would still have doubted they could survive they would also have told themselves that being 8 points away from the relegation zone was not an impossibility. As it happens they are now 13 points adrift from the vital 4th from bottom spot and I think that will make the world of difference to their motivation - especially when playing another side who are desperate for the points themselves. This could come down to heart and desire and I doubt if Sunderland have much of that left whilst Fulham should have it in spades. We'll see.

Whether or not they already thought they were doomed, I cannot believe that the reaction was anything other than complete despondency at cruely losing a game they should have won.

[GETT1NLOTS]

Originally Posted by dave (without a capital d)

Whether or not they already thought they were doomed, I cannot believe that the reaction was anything other than complete despondency at cruely losing a game they should have won.

True - I'm guessing this will effect the way they perform against Fulham. I think we're agreeing here. I think 1.61 is value (you obviously don't).

As for the rest of the Premiership games I can't see anything that appeals to me. They're all tight games and not much value to be had. I might have a bit of a read up on Everton at home to Charlton. This is more of a gut feeling that I have for the home side here... I'll do a bit of digging.

[GETT1NLOTS]

Strike that idea about Everton. Both have some pretty rank form of late with the exception being their last games. Impossible to call. Here are the big match facts from BBC for anyone who dares to have a flutter on this one.



BIG-MATCH FACTS

EVERTON and Charlton both ended 2005 with a much needed boost. The Merseysiders followed four defeats on the bounce by stealing three priceless points off basement dwellers Sunderland, through Tim Cahill's late, late winner at the Stadium of Light on Saturday. It means David Moyes' team go into this home clash two places and three points above the trap door - a far cry from where they entered the year at fourth top and chasing Champions League football.

The Toffees have lost six top flight matches at Goodison Park this season - half of them in their last three when nine goals have been conceded (v West Ham 1-2, Bolton 0-4 and Liverpool 1-3). They've failed to score in four in front of the home faithful and have netted one goal in each of the other five.

Everton have not beaten Charlton in five Premiership meetings, although overall their League head-to-head standings are dead level at 18 wins a piece with eight draws.

CHARLTON ATHLETIC had lost eight of nine in all competitions, going into the New Year's Eve fixture with West Ham at the Valley. Shaun Bartlett and Darren Bent goals gave manager Alan Curbishley a much needed tonic, having seen his side drop from second to 12th in two months. Now they face the club with the poorest attack in the top flight.

Athletic didn't concede more than a single goal in any of their first five away League matches. Now they've shipped eight in three - all of which were lost (4-1 at Blackburn, 1-0 at Villa and 3-0 at Wigan). Curbishley's charges are searching for their sixth away League victory.

The Addicks are bidding for a fourth successive top flight maximum over the Toffees and a third in a row at Goodison Park. The Londoners completed the 'double' over their Merseyside opponents with an away victory on 22 January. Midfielder Matt Holland struck the game's only goal just before half time from 25 metres, as the Addicks brought an end to Everton's glorious run of five successive home League wins.

[fasteddy]

Everton vs Charlton


soccernet.com
Everton:
Spanish midfielder Mikel Arteta returns to the Everton squad after serving his one-match ban. But Phil Neville is sidelined once again through suspension. Simon Davies aggravated an ankle problem at the Stadium of Light, while Per Kroldrup was unavailable against Sunderland due to a similar injury, but both stand a chance of being involved.

Everton stole a 1-0 over Sunderland last time out, not deserving according to some reports , but it's 3pts and a good tool for motivating the players...and Moyes needs something to do that at the moment.
I am not a fan of the Toffees simply because of the talent ( on paper, at least) they have and the lack of results they get: it's a disgrace. They are not alone in the EPL on this matter, but they are a club that should be consistently higher ranked than they are. Bad signings and some erratic performances from 1st team players has made this season a mirror image of last year, but even taking into account the changes in the sides there has to be a massive improvement sought by the management for the second part of the season.
Charlton aren't the easiest side to try to get back to back wins against , but they themsleves are still in a period of resurgence , so it is a definite opportunity.

Arteta and Cahill form an important partnership in midfield , giving pressure and pace going forward. There doesn't appear to be a consistent level of support to the movement from defence to midfield , and it's this that leaves them without options and therefore scoring opportunities. Taking the ball into the last 3rd is a struggle as you can never tell who's best to recieve it: Mc fadden, Beattie or Bent?...not a lot of confidence in any of them.

Charlton :
will have midfielder Danny Murphy back from suspension. Midfielder Alexei Smertin (knee) and winger Jerome Thomas (virus) are both doubtful, while centre-half Gonzalo Sorondo faces a fitness test on his bruised foot. Winger Dennis Rommedahl could keep his place after impressing in the 2-0 win over West Ham on Saturday.


Charlton are well...Charlton. Start well then fade away. They seem to be happy being the 'enigma' of the EPL. Great or shit...that's the choice they give their fans. The win over West Ham was done well, although a bit nervy, but to be expected I suppose after such a poor run of results.
What they do have is a good frontman in Bent: fast and great positioning for the ball. He gives his support options and makes it eaiser for others to take advantage of his ability to draw out defences and leave gaps at the back.
Charlton had to waether a Hammers storm , but they did so, and left with a clean sheet and 2 goals: excellent confidence building.
With Murphy back in the squad and Rommendahl looking on form as well, they have a solid squad and the neccessary attributes to take 3 pts here.
Everton won't be wanting to be too open at the back, with the pace Charlton have, so it could be a very tight affair, but as ever the Toffees will make a howler and gift them a goal.

If Charlton score first ...it's all over. If Everton score first then it will be a very nervy match , but the Addicks can get back into it.

The visitors to recieve a start is too generous to ignore.
Charlton +0.25

Comments Mr M?

[fasteddy]

West Ham vs Chelsea

You'd think that at some point Chelsea will slip up and lose one: seems only natural for them to have an off day , and most probably against a lower level side , due to the focus not being 100%, but they are managing to avoid this scenario time after time.
They had a slight scare against Fulham of all teams...conceded 2 , but scored 3...so no worries. Back on track with a tight, if unspectacular , 1-0 over Man City followed by a cosy 2-0 over Birmingham.

West Ham will provide an opportunity for them to get into a more attacking battle, with Alan Pardew's players not ones to shrink from a challenge or an opening to score, so we should see an open game with chances galore.

West Ham:
West Ham could have defenders Danny Gabbidon and Tomas Repka back from injury. However, striker Bobby Zamora (hamstring) is a doubt, while veteran Teddy Sheringham (calf) is still not fully recovered. Midfielder Yossi Benayoun, fit again following a groin problem, came off the bench in Saturday's defeat at Charlton, and may be in contention to start.

Having the defensive duo back helps a lot, but that's offset by the possible absence of Zamora. As a team that can always be relied upon to get on the scoresheet, the lack of a goal in the last 180 mins of play is a bit worrying. It's likely that the festive period has taken a toll on the squad and we are seeing a 'catch up' effect on everyone. The Hammers don't have the luxury of strength in depth as Chelsea do, so they may see another 90mins without success again.

Chelsea:
Chelsea will be without suspended England midfielder Joe Cole. Damien Duff, left out of the squad for the win over Birmingham, will replace him with Didier Drogba given the striking role ahead of Hernan Crespo as coach Jose Mourinho continues to rotate his strikers over the holiday programme. Claude Makelele, who started the Birmingham game as a substitute, will return the midfield anchorman role with Eidur Gudjohnsen or Michael Essien stepping down to accommodate him.

Makelele back in the midfield, Duff getting a shot again and Drogba up front: I like this set up...it scores goals and creates chances...lots of them.
For me, Drogba works better off Duff as opposed to Cole: maybe not in actual goals, but I see the movement as better.
Lampard is happiest with Claude beside him as well , so overall this is one of the strongest formations... in my book.

Solid win by the Blues...West Ham to try hard, maybe even hold out till the latter stages of the match, but they shouldn't get anything from this match.

Chelsea -1 @ 1.73

[mrmuzeman]

Is that -1 on Chelsea half your stake back if they win by1 or something?
I ask because Im interested in the Chelsea -1 (essentially Chelsea to win by 2 or more). Its 6/5 and as they cover that handicap more often than not (5 times in 9 aways thus far) looks a decent shout.

Re: Your Everton bet I cant see any odds you put up? So its kinda hard for me to comment! If your talking along the lines of 6/5 Charlton DNB then I couldnt put you off it. As I have no idea the outcome it would suggest if either side you can get 6/5 DNB then that would be a bit of value.

[mrmuzeman]

Im interested in the following and trying to work my way thru it....

Chelsea -1 @ 6/5

Wigan @ 2/1 or DNB 11/10

Man Utd @ 9/5 or DNB Evensish

[mrmuzeman]

Those odds on Wigan are looking really stupid actually to me. Granted they looked tired in their last match v Blackburn and this could be the reason I back them in a Draw No bet. This bet at 11/10 against a Brum side who have only beaten Fulham, West brom and Sunderland this season.

When you consider thats the only 3 sides theyve beaten and theyve got a 1-2-6 home record id consider myself very unlucky if I didnt at least return my stake. At against odds surely its good value I cant see why Birmingham should be favourites.

Man U cant really resist taking on the level ball handicap. Best I can get is 2.08 at Laddies so I may wait to see if Betfair can produce better but id still take that 2.08 no probs.

I looked at the recent head to heads which I do believe have some credence in big name match ups like this. In 2004 they played 5 times, Man U came out 3-1-1 (the 2 league match ups going 1 win for Man U and 1 draw). In 2005 they played twice Man U winning 1 and drawing the other. So last 7 match ups Man Utd are 4-2-1 so they definitely have the edge over Arsenal.

Add to this edge Arsenal being at their worst for years and Man Utd having Rooney at his best ever form and I reeally do think this is a very good bet.

By the way as an added - that single Arsenal win from the last 7 encounters was in the Charity shield and I dont even know if thats counts as a totally competitive match. So if you dont count that its 4-2-0 in last 6 in favour of the red devils (altho you could say 1 of Uniteds wins in the Carling Cup isnt entirely competitive either ).